Transcript of McCain on CNN
Highlighted Excerpts
On not drawing down troops
KING: As we know, you go back home, there will be a big debate in the Congress and in the country about, what next? Has the surge worked? Is it time to draw down at least the surge troops? Many would ask, is it time to drawdown even more troops? And there are some who say at least hit pause and maybe even send more to solidify the security improvement. John McCain would say?
MCCAIN: I would say generally speaking I rely on recommendations of our Ambassador Crocker here and General Petraeus and the other leadership on the ground here. I think that is probably appropriate to do since they have the best assessment. And my initial assessment, and we will wait until they testify on April the 8th before Congress, is that we probably should hold with 15 brigades for a while and see how the progress goes. There is a big fight going on up in Mosul right now and although it is progressing, I think it is al Qaeda's -- not al Qaeda's last stand, it is al Qaeda's place where they feel that they need to keep Mosul in order to survive.
On the surge and Sen. Clinton
KING: Well, today, back home, one of those Democrats, Senator Clinton, who could be your opponent in the fall election, is giving a speech in which she is saying if she is elected president of the United States, she will start bringing home the troops within 60 days.
MCCAIN: Well, all I can say is that she obviously does not understand nor appreciate the progress that has been made on the ground. She told General Petraeus last year when he testified that she would have to suspend disbelief in order to believe that the surge is working. Well, the surge is working.
So I just think what that means is al Qaeda wins. They tell the world that. And we fight here again and around the Middle East. And their dedication is to follow us home. All I can say is that this will be a big issue in the election as we approach November because at least a growing number of Americans, though still frustrated and understandably so, believe that this strategy has succeeded.
…But when you look at what has happened over the last year, in the view of most objective observers, it is a pretty remarkable improvement.
On troop increases
KING: If necessary, if the general came back and said, we have made progress to this point, but to get to the next point, I need more troops, John McCain is willing to go to the American people knowing that that is unpopular to stay for a period of time, we would send even more?
MCCAIN: Look, I don't anticipate that. Everything I have seen on the ground, I don't envision that scenario. But as I have said a long time ago, my friend, I would much rather lose a political campaign than lose a war. But so I will do what is necessary as long as we can achieve success and there is no doubt in my mind that we are achieving success, that I will do -- support whatever is necessary with the full awareness that the American people over time will not support an unending commitment that doesn't succeed. That is just the way democracies work.
On running for president during the Iraq war
MCCAIN: We are succeeding. And we can succeed and American casualties overall are way down. That is in direct contradiction to the predictions made by the Democrats and particularly Senator Obama and Senator Clinton.
I will be glad to stake my campaign on the fact that this has succeeded and the American people appreciate it. Now will we be able to succeed fast enough? Will they be able to -- al Qaeda be able to come back? That is a tough question. They are on the run, but they are not defeated…And I also have to point out to them the consequences of failure as advocated by the Democrats. As I said, Harry Reid declared the war lost. No one here believes that the war is lost. That was last April. No one believes that if you just get the troops out as quickly as possible, there will be anything but chaos, genocide, and we will be back at much greater cost in American blood and treasure. And I'm not going to let that happen if I possibly can.
On the “bomb Iran”/Beach Boys song joke, diplomacy and climate change
MCCAIN: I was with veterans and we were joking. And if somebody can't understand that, my answer is, please get a life and judge -- make the judgments you want. But when I'm around my old veteran friends, people who have seen the face of war and lost their comrades, I'm going to joke around with them. And if somebody can't take that, that -- I understand that. That is the basis of their judgment, I will accept that. But I will continue to take joy in being in the company of my fellow veterans. We are not doing as badly as some portray in the world.
Sarkozy, the president of France, wants better relations with us. Gordon Brown continues the special relationship. We continue to enjoy good relations with Chancellor Merkel.
I know all of these leaders. I have met with them many times in the past. And I will continue to spend time with them and tell them that I will join with them to try to address climate change, we won't torture any prisoner that Americans hold in our custody.
But I also believe we -- I can make a strong argument that there are places in the world where we need a lot of their help, not just Afghanistan, different kinds of help here and financial and other ways, and other parts of the world. That we live in a dangerous world today and I think I can improve those relations and has us work together in a more cooperative fashion.
On China
MCCAIN: And yes, I think we should be more outspoken in our opposition to some of the practices and lack of democracy in China. The fact is, China is a world power, and they will get bigger and we have to do the best we can with the situation as it will evolve, but at the same time continue our advocacy for human rights. It is a delicate balance.
On his approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
KING: You move on to Amman and then to Israel. The peace process in fits and starts, many say certainly a process because there is no firm commitment just yet. You know the criticism, people watched Bill Clinton get hands on for a long time, get close to the finish line. It collapsed. Even the president's friend, Tony Blair, has said he does not believe George W. Bush has invested enough personally in it. How would you be different?
MCCAIN: I would keep constant and unrelenting pressure on all sides to try to bring to the table to bring about an ending to this conflict. The issues are complex, in some ways they are worse now that Hamas, a terrorist organization, controls Gaza. There is still corruption. There is still ungovernable parts of the Palestinian areas. This is -- I think that one of the things we should try harder on is getting Egypt and other nations in the region more heavily involved. But I think that this has got to have the highest priority. But I don't, frankly -- I have to give you some straight talk, see an immediate resolution. But I think we need to go back to a step-by-step process.
On the fundraiser at the end of his Mideast trip
MCCAIN: Yes, well, according to the Ethics Committee and according to our schedule we will be paying all of our own expenses there at that time, and coming back at my expense. And at the end of the official trip will be -- and we'll have a fund-raiser, and will be separate from the official trip.
Full Transcript
THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, first, thanks for joining us. You are here in Iraq. As we know, you go back home, there will be a big debate in the Congress and in the country about, what next? Has the surge worked? Is it time to draw down at least the surge troops? Many would ask, is it time to drawdown even more troops? And there are some who say at least hit pause and maybe even send more to solidify the security improvement.
John McCain would say?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would say generally speaking I rely on recommendations of our Ambassador Crocker here and General Petraeus and the other leadership on the ground here. I think that is probably appropriate to do since they have the best assessment.
And my initial assessment, and we will wait until they testify on April the 8th before Congress, is that we probably should hold with 15 brigades for a while and see how the progress goes. There is a big fight going on up in Mosul right now and although it is progressing, I think it is al Qaeda's -- not al Qaeda's last stand, it is al Qaeda's place where they feel that they need to keep Mosul in order to survive.
KING: This is your eighth visit to Iraq. Based on what you have seen on the ground and as you travel to Mosul, to Ramadi, al-Anbar, your conversations with General Petraeus and others, do you see an end in sight or is it too soon to see an end in sight?
MCCAIN: I have always seen the end. How closer we are to that is significant progress. But again, we found out last week, as you know, that the casualties spiked up tragically we sacrificed 12 young Americans.
And so they are on the run, but they are not defeated. And there are large areas of this city we are in right now that the neighborhoods are safe. I was in Haditha yesterday. We walked down the streets with no body armor on. People were out.
But there is a significant police presence and there is still U.S. military presence. So a lot of progress has been made. When Harry Reid and the Democrats said the war was lost last April, they were wrong, they were dead wrong.
Now the question is, will be able to continue that progress to the point where the Iraqis take up more and more of those responsibilities and we withdraw? We are not there yet, at least in my assessment.
KING: Well, today, back home, one of those Democrats, Senator Clinton, who could be your opponent in the fall election, is giving a speech in which she is saying if she is elected president of the United States, she will start bringing home the troops within 60 days.
MCCAIN: Well, all I can say is that she obviously does not understand nor appreciate the progress that has been made on the ground. She told General Petraeus last year when he testified that she would have to suspend disbelief in order to believe that the surge is working. Well, the surge is working.
So I just think what that means is al Qaeda wins. They tell the world that. And we fight here again and around the Middle East. And their dedication is to follow us home. All I can say is that this will be a big issue in the election as we approach November because at least a growing number of Americans, though still frustrated and understandably so, believe that this strategy has succeeded.
KING: And what specifically have you seen on this trip to advance that argument for you? Because what you just said is things you have been saying for months back home. You can go home now and as a senator and as a candidate, say what new based on what you have seen and heard?
MCCAIN: Well, entire neighborhoods of Baghdad are quiet. The Iraqi military continues to grow. The military police -- I mean, the police force is growing. There is -- I could run down a long list of problems with you, among them are their failure to declare for provincial elections, oil revenue-sharing. There is still corruption in areas, particularly among Shiite parts of the government. There are a couple of people that should have gone to trial that didn't in the last week or two.
But when you look at what has happened over the last year, in the view of most objective observers, it is a pretty remarkable improvement.
KING: You mentioned improvements, and you mentioned walking down the street yesterday. I tried to go yesterday to the Shorja market, where you went a year ago when you were here. And there was a big controversy at the time. You said, look, see, I can walk down this market's street, Iraq is getting better.
Some of the merchants said afterwards that was only because you had a hundred troops and the general on the ground with you. It is unsafe for an American to go to that market now. And that neighborhood is in control of Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army.
How much of the success or the improvements in security do you attribute directly to the surge, and how much to the point that maybe al-Sadr has made the political calculations to just keep his powder dry for now?
MCCAIN: Al-Sadr has been -- his influence has been on the wane for a long time. He has been out of the country. He has declared that he is going to devote his time to thought and prayer. There is no doubt that in Sadr City, it is a very tough place. And still there is a hotbed of his followers. And it is a difficult place to get into.
So all I can say is that yet there are other neighborhoods of Baghdad where kids are out playing soccer, people are in the street. Now I don't know where exactly it is that John King may or may not be able to go in safety and security, but I would say -- argue that if this surge continues to succeed, there will be more places where you can.
KING: If necessary, if the general came back and said, we have made progress to this point, but to get to the next point, I need more troops, John McCain is willing to go to the American people knowing that that is unpopular to stay for a period of time, we would send even more?
MCCAIN: Look, I don't anticipate that. Everything I have seen on the ground, I don't envision that scenario. But as I have said a long time ago, my friend, I would much rather lose a political campaign than lose a war.
But so I will do what is necessary as long as we can achieve success and there is no doubt in my mind that we are achieving success, that I will do -- support whatever is necessary with the full awareness that the American people over time will not support an unending commitment that doesn't succeed. That is just the way democracies work.
KING: General Petraeus has voiced his own frustration with the pace of political progress. What can John McCain do from your perch in the United States Senate or if a few months from now you are in the Oval Office to speed up the process, to sort of boots (ph) to them if necessary to make them get things done that they simply refuse to do, whether it is because of a lack of will or a lack of confidence?
MCCAIN: Well, General Petraeus has actually said he is pleased with some of the progress. All of us are frustrated with some of the progress they haven't made, particularly provincial elections.
That needs to happen. The Sunni boycotted the elections last time. And now they are ready to take part in the election. Thousands of young Sunnis are now in these patriotic brigades and protecting their neighborhoods. And now they want to have representation as well.
So they need to pass the oil revenue-sharing -- the hydrocarbon law.
They need to have a better functioning government in many ways. They have got too many ministries. They have got too many bureaucracies. And rule of law is probably -- if I had to set priority, frankly, the rule of law is the highest priority.
But that is always the highest and most difficult challenge, when you establish democracy. Now, look, here is the situation…
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAIN: Let me just tell you an example. We are succeeding. And we can succeed and American casualties overall are way down. That is in direct contradiction to the predictions made by the Democrats and particularly Senator Obama and Senator Clinton.
I will be glad to stake my campaign on the fact that this has succeeded and the American people appreciate it. Now will we be able to succeed fast enough? Will they be able to -- al Qaeda be able to come back? That is a tough question. They are on the run, but they are not defeated.
KING: So part of the job of a president is persuade the American people, you disagree with me on this one, but I need you to follow me, I need you to support me, if not for me, for the young men and women who are here and the young men and women who have come before them.
How do you -- five years this week, and as you know, the American people have soured (ph). Some are just vehemently opposed. Some are just tired. How do you go to them and say, I need you to rally?
MCCAIN: You show them the facts on the ground. You show them the statistics. You show them parts of the country that are under the government's control. You show them the progress made by the Iraqi military and now training of Iraqi police, recognizing full well that for nearly four years we have pursued a failed strategy, one that fought against with everything I possibly could, and advocated this new strategy.
And when they see General Petraeus, as they will again, on April the 8th, they will have some confidence in the leadership and the men and women who are serving. And I also have to point out to them the consequences of failure as advocated by the Democrats.
As I said, Harry Reid declared the war lost. No one here believes that the war is lost. That was last April. No one believes that if you just get the troops out as quickly as possible, there will be anything but chaos, genocide, and we will be back at much greater cost in American blood and treasure. And I'm not going to let that happen if I possibly can.
KING: Do you worry that the leadership here in Iraq might be waiting out the Bush administration? One of the issues on the table is, should the United States negotiate a security agreement under which U.S. troops could stay here in a sovereign Iraq for whatever period of time? I don't want to have a debate about a hundred years or…
MCCAIN: I gotcha (ph), yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But should the United States be negotiating -- should President Bush be making that a top priority so that whoever takes office in January has that agreement in place and does not have to deal with the difficulties of negotiating?
MCCAIN: I would like to see that, a status of forces agreement we have with many, many nations around the world. It is not an unusual thing.
But the key to all of this really, John, is not so much the agreement, it is that the American people feel comfortable that the casualties are down and gradually eliminated so that these young men and women who are serving so bravely here are not sacrificed.
KING: Going to take a few more minutes to talk more broadly about this trip, it is a fact-finding trip for you as a member of the United States Senate, but it is also a fact-finding trip for those sitting across the table from you. They are looking at a man who a few months down the road could be the next president of the United States.
As you know, the image of the United States in the world is not at a high point at the moment. In many of the places you will visit, you know, George W. Bush is viewed as this go-it-alone, my way or the highway, America is always right, cowboy diplomacy.
You have said jokingly the things like "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran." Who do you want them to think John McCain is? How are you different (INAUDIBLE)?
MCCAIN: Well, first of all, since (INAUDIBLE) brought up about the Beach Boys song, when veterans are together, veterans joke. And I was with veterans and we were joking. And if somebody can't understand that, my answer is, please get a life and judge -- make the judgments you want.
But when I'm around my old veteran friends, people who have seen the face of war and lost their comrades, I'm going to joke around with them.
And if somebody can't take that, that -- I understand that. That is the basis of their judgment, I will accept that.
But I will continue to take joy in being in the company of my fellow veterans. We are not doing as badly as some portray in the world.
Sarkozy, the president of France, wants better relations with us. Gordon Brown continues the special relationship. We continue to enjoy good relations with Chancellor Merkel.
I know all of these leaders. I have met with them many times in the past. And I will continue to spend time with them and tell them that I will join with them to try to address climate change, we won't torture any prisoner that Americans hold in our custody.
But I also believe we -- I can make a strong argument that there are places in the world where we need a lot of their help, not just Afghanistan, different kinds of help here and financial and other ways, and other parts of the world. That we live in a dangerous world today and I think I can improve those relations and has us work together in a more cooperative fashion.
KING: The Dalai Lama said that China is committing cultural genocide in Tibet. Do you agree with that statement and is it time for the United States to be tougher with China when it comes to human rights and other issues?
MCCAIN: I think all of us who watched China basically take over Tibet years ago knew that the Tibetan people were being oppressed by the Chinese government. And the Dalai Lama is a symbol to all of us.
I was proud of the president when he had him to the White House. I think that there are human rights abuses all over China. And yes, I think we should be more outspoken in our opposition to some of the practices and lack of democracy in China.
The fact is, China is a world power, and they will get bigger and we have to do the best we can with the situation as it will evolve, but at the same time continue our advocacy for human rights. It is a delicate balance.
KING: You move on to Amman and then to Israel. The peace process in fits and starts, many say certainly a process because there is no firm commitment just yet. You know the criticism, people watched Bill Clinton get hands on for a long time, get close to the finish line. It collapsed. Even the president's friend, Tony Blair, has said he does not believe George W. Bush has invested enough personally in it.
How would you be different?
MCCAIN: I would keep constant and unrelenting pressure on all sides to try to bring to the table to bring about an ending to this conflict. The issues are complex, in some ways they are worse now that Hamas, a terrorist organization, controls Gaza.
There is still corruption. There is still ungovernable parts of the Palestinian areas. This is -- I think that one of the things we should try harder on is getting Egypt and other nations in the region more heavily involved. But I think that this has got to have the highest priority. But I don't, frankly -- I have to give you some straight talk, see an immediate resolution. But I think we need to go back to a step-by-step process.
KING: Let me ask you lastly, at the end of this trip, you have a political fundraiser. And it has something -- well, how can you call
(INAUDIBLE) trip an official trip when at the end, in (INAUDIBLE), you will be raising money for your campaign.
MCCAIN: Yes, well, according to the Ethics Committee and according to our schedule we will be paying all of our own expenses there at that time, and coming back at my expense. And at the end of the official trip will be -- and we'll have a fund-raiser, and will be separate from the official trip.
KING: I've taken a lot of your time. Anything you want to add in closing?
MCCAIN: No, except to say that I think the American people are beginning to believe that we are having success here. I understand their frustration and their sorrow, but I do believe that we can see in the foreseeable future a time when the Iraqis, as they are in Mosul today, are taking over most of the responsibilities, and we will be able to draw down our troops.
KING: Senator, thank you very much.
MCCAIN: Thank you, John.
