Transcript of Dukakis Interview on CNN
Highlighted Excerpts
On whether Sen. Obama is ready to take on Sen. McCain
BLITZER: Is Barack Obama tough enough right now to take on the Republicans and John McCain?
DUKAKIS: Yes. No question about it. If you listened carefully to his speech after his victory in North Carolina, it's entirely clear, Wolf, that he knows what's coming at him and he's ready for it.
On advice for Sen. Obama's campaign
DUKAKIS: To be ready, to respond immediately, to take the fight to McCain, and never to let up. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't be positive, because the American people are looking for a very positive agenda for Barack Obama and they're going to get it from him. But you cannot let the Republicans do what they did to me and what they did to Kerry.
On Sen. McCain's weaknesses
DUKAKIS: Well, but McCain is very vulnerable. I mean, his campaign is loaded with lobbyists. As a matter of fact, as you know, right now he's throwing them overboard one after another. There are lots and lots of weaknesses there.
Not only that, he's a supporter of what I think has to be the dumbest war we've ever waged. On economic policy he's nowhere. So there's plenty to go after.
On exit polls focusing on the general election
DUKAKIS: Well, they're worrisome, but not if my party does what I hope it will do. And that is organize every single one of the 200,000 precincts in all of the 50 states of the United States, something we haven't done since Jack Kennedy ran for the presidency. I didn't do it very well.
And I'm serious, Wolf. I think we've got to stop buying into this red/blue nonsense. There are a dozen states that are supposed to be red states with Democratic governors. And we've been regularly conceding these states to the other side…If we do that, we're going to win those people over. If we think we're going to win it on television, then we're kidding ourselves.
On political attacks on candidates' spouses
BLITZER: Is going after the spouse of a candidate fair game in this kind of contest for the presidency?
DUKAKIS: I don't think so, whether it's Michelle Obama or Cindy McCain, for that matter. And both sides have sinned on this. Look, it's not our spouses that are running for the presidency. And while they're involved and engaged and I think people want to see your family, they want to get a sense that you've got strong family ties, you care deeply about your family and so on. I think this kind of stuff is really out of bounds and I would hope that neither side would do that.
There's plenty to go at on both sides when it comes to the issues that are facing them and are going to face us in the years to come. But I think they ought to get off this stuff, frankly.
On Ted Kennedy
DUKAKIS: Well, Wolf, it's hard for me to talk about it. It's so emotional. Ted Kennedy and I were both elected to political office for the first time in 196, he to the United States Senate and I to the Massachusetts legislature. We've been friends and colleagues and comrades in arms for years.
He was an incredible -- has been an incredible source of strength certainly for this state when I was governor for 12 years. There was nothing he wouldn't do for this state, and frankly nothing he wouldn't do for the United States of America. It's just awfully tough to deal with this.
But if there's one thing Ted Kennedy is, it's a fighter. And if anybody can fight and turn back this disease, this condition that he has, it's going to be the senator. And we're all going to be pulling for him and I just hope and pray that he's going to be OK.
Full Transcript
THIS IS A RUSH FDCH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The closer Barack Obama gets to clinching his party's presidential nomination the more Democrats are bracing themselves for anything Republicans may throw at him. That may include allegations of elitism, questions about patriotism, lines of attack that have defeated some past Democratic nominees. And joining us now, the former governor of Massachusetts, the former Democratic presidential nominee, Michael Dukakis.
Governor, thanks very much for joining us.
MICHAEL DUKAKIS (D), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Wolf, good to be with you.
BLITZER: I know you're still neutral among these Democratic candidates. But here's the question because I think your experience, it always pops up.
Is Barack Obama tough enough right now to take on the Republicans and John McCain?
DUKAKIS: Yes. No question about it.
If you listened carefully to his speech after his victory in North Carolina, it's entirely clear, Wolf, that he knows what's coming at him and he's ready for it.
BLITZER: I raise the question because I went back and read "The New York Times" after your defeat back in 1988. They said this. And I'll quote it to you.
"Mr. Dukakis, a stubborn man, was determined to run what he viewed as a positive, issue oriented campaign. He hit Mr. Bush occasionally, but until the final weeks he would never commit himself to the kind of repeated daily offensive that was need."
What do you think about that?
DUKAKIS: I agree with the criticism. It was a great mistake. It was my decision not to respond to the Bush attack campaign for weeks, and it was a huge mistake. No Democratic nominee will ever make that again and Barack Obama will never make that mistake.
BLITZER: Because Bill Clinton in '92 and '96, whenever he was attacked, he counterpunched right away. He didn't waste any time. Some will say that John Kerry in 2004, with that swiftboating he waited too long to counter on that.
Did he wait too long?
DUKAKIS: Yes, he waited too long.
And Clinton did -- as a matter of fact, you'll remember, Wolf, that Clinton had a unit in his campaign of about ten people, some of whom had worked for me in '88, who did nothing but deal with the Bush attack campaign in '92. And it was just as tough on Clinton as it was on me.
And the fact that he --
BLITZER: So give me the advice -- give us the advice for Obama.
DUKAKIS: To be ready, to respond immediately, to take the fight to McCain, and never to let up.
Now, that doesn't mean that you can't be positive, because the American people are looking for a very positive agenda for Barack Obama and they're going to get it from him. But you cannot let the Republicans do what they did to me and what they did to Kerry.
BLITZER: Because you know what they're going to do, the Reverend Wright, the William Aires from the Weather Underground.
DUKAKIS: Sure.
BLITZER: They're going to go after him on of all these issues. What the Democrats did is going to be small potatoes to what's in store for him.
DUKAKIS: Well, but McCain is very vulnerable. I mean, his campaign is loaded with lobbyists. As a matter of fact, as you know, right now he's throwing them overboard one after another. There are lots and lots of weaknesses there.
Not only that, he's a supporter of what I think has to be the dumbest war we've ever waged. On economic policy he's nowhere. So there's plenty to go after. But you can't let these folks do what they did to me and they did to Kerry. And I don't think there's any chance at all that Obama's going to let them do it. He is a tough guy, he's a smart guy and he's not going to let them get away with this.
BLITZER: Here are some numbers that came out of the Kentucky exit polls yesterday, numbers that the McCain folks and the Republicans love, but very worrisome to Democrats.
We asked Clinton supporters in Kentucky who they would vote for if she doesn't get the nomination -- 42 percent said they would vote for McCain, 33 percent said they'd vote for Obama, 23 percent said they won't vote. Those are Hillary Clinton supporters. And we've seen not as dire as that, but we've seen similar results in other exit polls, whether in West Virginia, Ohio, or Pennsylvania.
Those have got to be really worrisome numbers to you.
DUKAKIS: Well, they're worrisome, but not if my party does what I hope it will do. And that is organize every single one of the 200,000 precincts in all of the 50 states of the United States, something we haven't done since Jack Kennedy ran for the presidency. I didn't do it very well.
And I'm serious, Wolf. I think we've got to stop buying into this red/blue nonsense. There are a dozen states that are supposed to be red states with Democratic governors. And we've been regularly conceding these states to the other side. So I want to see a precinct cap (ph) and six blocker enable caps (ph) in every single one of the 200,000 precincts in the United States. If we do that, we're going to win those people over. If we think we're going to win it on television, then we're kidding ourselves.
BLITZER: The other day Barack Obama said to the Republicans, lay off my wife -- Michelle Obama -- some of the comments that she's made.
Kitty Dukakis, your wife, was criticized.
Is going after the spouse of a candidate fair game in this kind of contest for the presidency?
DUKAKIS: I don't think so, whether it's Michelle Obama or Cindy McCain, for that matter.
And both sides have sinned on this. Look, it's not our spouses that are running for the presidency. And while they're involved and engaged and I think people want to see your family, they want to get a sense that you've got strong family ties, you care deeply about your family and so on. I think this kind of stuff is really out of bounds and I would hope that neither side would do that.
There's plenty to go at on both sides when it comes to the issues that are facing them and are going to face us in the years to come. But I think they ought to get off this stuff, frankly.
BLITZER: Give us a final thought about Ted Kennedy, who is going through a very, very rough period right now.
DUKAKIS: Well, Wolf, it's hard for me to talk about it. It's so emotional. Ted Kennedy and I were both elected to political office for the first time in 196, he to the United States Senate and I to the Massachusetts legislature. We've been friends and colleagues and comrades in arms for years.
He was an incredible -- has been an incredible source of strength certainly for this state when I was governor for 12 years. There was nothing he wouldn't do for this state, and frankly nothing he wouldn't do for the United States of America. It's just awfully tough to deal with this.
But if there's one thing Ted Kennedy is, it's a fighter. And if anybody can fight and turn back this disease, this condition that he has, it's going to be the senator. And we're all going to be pulling for him and I just hope and pray that he's going to be OK.
BLITZER: Well said.
Governor, thanks very much for coming in.
DUKAKIS: Thanks, Wolf.
