Transcript of Clinton on "This Week"

STEPHANOPOULOS: When I met with Senator Clinton in Eldridge...(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: Good to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... that's where we began.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, Peggy Noonan accepts the premise of
your question this morning in The Wall Street Journal, but she goes on
to say that's exactly the reason not to pick you. She says, "Mrs.
Clinton is the most dramatically polarizing, the most instinctively
distrusted political figure of my lifetime. Yes, I include Nixon."

CLINTON: (LAUGHTER) Oh, George, I mean, I'm not surprised. Are
you?

Obviously, I'm running a campaign to try to keep focused on the
big issues that the country faces. And I think that people in Iowa
and around the country are resonating to that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But...

CLINTON: But obviously, there are people who disagree with me.
They disagree with me ideologically, philosophically, on a partisan
basis. That's not a surprise to me or to you.

And for those who now think they're against me, I look to New
York, where a lot of people ended up voting for me who never thought
they would.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But even our polling here in Iowa shows that
this issue of trust is a hurdle for you with Democrats.
CLINTON: Well, that's not what I see. You know, I trust my
touch and my feel more than I trust, with all due respect, the
commentary that goes on. And whoever becomes the Democratic nominee
will face a very high negative, because we know that's what the
Republicans are better at, including the person that you quoted from,
than anybody else.

STEPHANOPOULOS: On this issue of experience, Senator Dodd took
off on you yesterday. He said your experience as first lady was
basically not relevant. You were sitting on the sidelines.

And he said, "That's not experience, that's witnessing
experience." How do you respond to Senator Dodd?

CLINTON: Well, I'm a big fan of his. I consider...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Despite that?

CLINTON: Oh, sure. Look, it's a campaign. We're getting down
to the very end. I've been around long enough to know that people who
are friends before and will be friends afterwards are obviously trying
to make a political point.

But I think the reality and the evidence is far different. You
know, I was intimately involved in so much that went on in the White
House, here at home and around the world.

You know, just in the last few weeks, the new leaders of the
Northern Ireland government, Dr. Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness,
made a special effort to see me. Why? Because I helped in that
process, not just standing by and witnessing, but actually getting my
hands into it, creating opportunities for people on both sides of the
sectarian divide to come together.

When I went to Beijing, I wasn't a witness. I was a spokesperson
and proud to be for the proposition that women's rights are human
rights. And that cascaded across the world.

I was entrusted with a lot of missions in both paving the way and
dealing with very specific challenges our country faced. And I
believe since I've been in the Senate, especially serving on the Armed
Services Committee, I've deepened and broadened my experience.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about in the White House? The New York
Times wrote this week that you did not attend National Security
Council meetings, you did not receive the president's daily briefing,
didn't have a security clearance. And that calls your experience in
the White House into question.

CLINTON: Well, I just disagree with that. You know, I can
imagine what the stories would have been had I attended a National
Security Council meeting. You were there. I think you can vouch for
that.

But I had direct access to all of the decision-makers. I was
briefed on a range of issues, often provided classified information.
And often when I traveled on behalf of our country. I traveled with
representatives from the DOD, the CIA, the State Department. I think
that my experience is unique, having been eight years in the White
House, having, yes, been part of making history, and also been part of
learning how to best present our country's case. And now, seven years
on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.

STEPHANOPOULOS: President Clinton has said, has suggested that
you urged him to intervene in Rwanda in 1994.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

B. CLINTON: If I had moved then, we might have saved as many as
a third of those lives, and I think she clearly would have done that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that true?

CLINTON: It is. It is true. And, you know, I believe that our
government failed. We obviously didn't have a lot of good options.
It moved very quickly. It was a difficult, terrible genocide to try
to get our arms around and to do something to try to stem or prevent.
It didn't happen, and that is something that the president has
apologized for, and I think that for me, it was one of the most
poignant and difficult experiences, when I met with Rwandan refugees
in Kampala, Uganda, shortly after the genocide ended, and I personally
apologized to women whose arms had been hacked off, who had seen their
husbands and their children murdered before their very eyes and were
at the bottom of piles of bodies.

And then when I was able to go to Rwanda and be part of
expressing our deep regrets, because we didn't speak out adequately
enough, and we certainly didn't take action.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You called President Pervez Musharraf of
Pakistan an unreliable ally. Should he step down?

CLINTON: I'm not calling for him to step down. I'm calling for
him, number one, to agree with an independent investigation of Benazir
Bhutto's death. I am calling on him to hold free and fair elections
with independent monitors. I believe that it will take a little time
to get that ready, because Benazir's party will have to choose a
successor leader...

STEPHANOPOULOS: So we don't need the elections on the 8th?

CLINTON: Well, I think it will be very difficult to have a real
election. You know, Nawaz Sharif has said he's not going to compete.
The PPP is in disarray with Benazir's assassination. He could be the
only person on the ballot. I don't think that's a real election.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are we getting to the point, as the United
States faced back in 1979, when we stood behind a leader who doesn't
have the trust of his people, for too long?

CLINTON: Well, that's very possible. We don't know. We know
that there is a very strong, pro-democracy, anti-Musharraf movement.

You know, when you have people demonstrating in the streets who
are wearing coats and ties, you know, those are the people we should
be standing with, the civil society, the middle class of Pakistan,
that at this point, if Musharraf were to step down, who would take his
place? How would that ever be worked out? This is not a country that
has a history of peaceful succession.

This is an opportunity for President Musharraf to step up and
actually fulfill many of the words and promises that he's made to me
and to many others over the course of a number of years.

STEPHANOPOULOS: On the issue of experience, Barack Obama's taken
to quoting Bill Clinton, 1992.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: You can have the right kind of experience and the wrong
kind of experience. And mine is rooted in the real lives of real
people and it will bring real results if we just have the courage to
change. And I believe deeply in those words, but you know what,
they're not mine. They were Bill Clinton's in 1992.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is Barack Obama as qualified for the White House
now as Bill Clinton was then?

CLINTON: Well, you know, by the time Bill ran, he was the senior
most serving governor in America, and he'd had tough elections every
two years, and then two more after that.

But I'm running on my own qualifications and experience.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So the answer is no?

CLINTON: Well, I am going to let voters make that decision,
because ultimately, voters are trying to weigh each and every one of
us.

What people know about me is that I've been vetted and I've been
tested. I've been on the receiving end of a lot of Republican
incoming fire for 16 years, and I have, much to their dismay, survived
and thrived. I don't think that...

STEPHANOPOULOS: And he hasn't yet.

CLINTON: I think I'm talking about what I've been through, and I
don't think there's much doubt that I'm ready to go the distance.
CLINTON: You know, I have all of this support from officeholders
in so-called red states. Now, they might like me personally, but
they're not on suicide missions. They have assessed the field, and
they have concluded, as Governor Strickland has said, I am the person
who can win Ohio. I am the person best ready to run a winning
campaign and to be the best president for America.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You want to be judged on your own terms, and of
course you will be in the end, but President Clinton does play a big
role in this campaign and a big part of your appeal here, right?

CLINTON: Right. Right.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, has he had a hard time, in your view,
adjusting to the role of surrogate?

CLINTON: Not really. I think he's been actually more excited
about it than he thought he would have been. I think that you know he
loves being out with people.

He loves making a case. And he's been a tremendous asset in this
campaign.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And a lot of people wonder what kind of role he
will play in the White House. You've spoken about his role as a
roving ambassador.

Take us inside the White House. Something happens like the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto the other day. President Bush had a
teleconference with his national security team. Would President
Clinton be on that call in your White House?

CLINTON: Probably not. I think he would play the role that
spouses have always played for presidents, which is a very important
role. And I know that firsthand. But I also know from his...

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, no National Security Council meetings.

CLINTON: No. That wouldn't be appropriate. He will not have a
formal official role. But just as presidents rely on wives, husbands,
fathers, friends of long years, he will be my close confidant and
adviser, as I was with him.

I doubt that there will be an important issue that I won't talk
to him about. I don't think there was an important issue that he
didn't talk to me about. I don't talk about everything we talked
about, because obviously I don't think that's appropriate.

But I expect to rely on him in a personal way, and I expect to
ask him to take on some very important assignments.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You had an office in the West Wing. Will he?

CLINTON: If he wants one. I don't know he'll want one.
(LAUGHTER)

STEPHANOPOULOS: (inaudible) No, I asked him about that a few
months ago. He said he'll go wherever you want him to go.

CLINTON: Oh, well...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even in the basement.

CLINTON: ... well, you know, this is kind of -- it's kind of
getting ahead of ourselves. We haven't even had the first people show
up at the caucuses in Iowa.

I'm going to rely on him. I would expect that people in my
administration will turn to him and rely on him, as we do with many
people who have experience.

I happen to think using former presidents makes a lot of sense.
So, I expect to ask him to do many things for our country.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Both Barack Obama and John Edwards this week --
you're talking about experience. They're talking about change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: To get real change, we need a president who will stand
up against the big corporations and powerful interests in Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: You can't at once argue that you're the master of a
broken system in Washington, and then offer yourself as the person to
change it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: And they both say that someone so intimately
involved with a broken system, as they put it, can't bring change.

CLINTON: Well, I don't think there is this distinction between
change and experience. I know that's what they've tried to make this
campaign about. It is not an either-or choice.

That's a false choice for the people of America. I believe I
have the experience to bring change. I think you can look at my
record in the Senate and all of the bipartisan accomplishments that
I've been able to achieve, working across the aisle.
I know how to find common ground. I know how to stand my ground.
And I think it does take some experience to know how to bring about
change in our system.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But John Edwards says...

CLINTON: You know, some people think you can bring change by
demanding it. And some people think you can bring change...

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's John Edwards, right?

CLINTON: ... by hoping for it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's Barack Obama, right?

CLINTON: I think you bring change by working really hard for it.
And that's what I've done my entire life.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And that is the frame you've set up. But their
point is, you know, you take money from the system as it is right now.
You take money from lobbyists. You've heard that argument all through
this campaign.

And because you're so wedded to it, it's just not possible.

CLINTON: Well, I think those are artificial distinctions. You
know, they take money from people who employ lobbyists, who are
married to lobbyists, who are the children of lobbyists.

We need public financing. You know, we need a total overhaul of
how we fund our campaigns. I'm in total agreement with that.

But I think it would be hard to find anybody who has incurred the
wrath of the special interests more than I have: the drug companies,
the health-insurance companies, the oil companies. You just go down
the list.

I don't think they waste their time or effort targeting someone
that they think is already in agreement with them. They know I mean
what I say. They know I have a track record of bringing success.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're in the Quad Cities here. The Quad City
Times this morning, "Five Days Left, Caucus Races Tight, Edwards,
Obama 29-29, Clinton 28."

You are world famous here. Biggest organization in the
Democratic Party. Why is it so close here?

CLINTON: Oh, it's supposed to be close. I mean, this is a great
contest. We don't have any heir apparent in the Democratic Party.
I'm out there fighting for every single caucus-goer. I'm out making
my case to everybody that I can reach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Go get 'em. Go get 'em.
CLINTON: Well, with your help.

UNKNOWN: Bring America back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I think this is what elections are supposed to be
about. Caucuses are, you know, a different breed, but it still is how
you persuade people to come out on a cold night and actually stand up
in public and declare their allegiance to you as a candidate.
CLINTON: But I feel very encouraged by what I see in the crowds
and the kind of reports that I'm getting about the support that I have
around the state.

STEPHANOPOULOS: David Yepsen writes, in the Des Moines Register,
"There's no third-place ticket out of Iowa for a Democrat this year."
He calls third place "a dead zone." Is he right?

CLINTON: I think, because it's so close -- you know, when I
started here, I was in single digits. I mean, nobody expected me to
be doing as well as I'm doing in Iowa.

I was running against one opponent who has been campaigning here
for four years, another opponent from a neighboring state. So I
believe that this campaign will be bunched up. I think that the
history out of Iowa is that a lot of people live to fight another day.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you may not win?

CLINTON: I'm not expecting anything. I'm just working as hard
as I can to make the best case, in these closing days, and to try to
get the folks who say they're for me to actually be able to turn out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: If you don't win here, how do you recover

CLINTON: I don't think it's a question of recovery. I have a
campaign that is posed and ready for the long term. We are competing
everywhere through February 5. We have staff in many states. We have
built organizations in many states.

You know, George, you and I went through an experience, in 1992,
where Bill Clinton didn't win anything until Georgia. He came in
second time and time again, in a much less, you know volatile and...

STEPHANOPOULOS: much less compressed, also.

CLINTON: ... much less compressed environment.

So, from my perspective, you get up every day and you get out
there and you make your case, and you reach as many people as
possible. That's what I intend to do. So I'm in it for the long run.
It's not a very long run. It will be over by February 5.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator, thanks very much.

CLINTON: Thanks. Great to see you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Hillary Clinton, for the Democrats.