Transcript of Saddleback Forum
6 Pastor Rick: THANK YOU. BE SEATED. WELCOME TO THE
7 SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY. I GUESS YOU GOT
8 MY INVITATION. WE'RE HERE AT SADDLEBACK CHURCH HERE IN
9 LAKE FOREST CALIFORNIA AND TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO USE THE
10 INTERVIEW FORMAT WITH THESE TWO CANDIDATES NOW WE BELIEVE
11 IN THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, BUT WE DO NOT
12 BELIEVE IN THE SEPARATION OF FAITH AND POLITICS BECAUSE
13 FAITH IS JUST A WORLD VIEW AND EVERYBODY HAS SOME KIND OF
14 WORLD VIEW AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
15 NOW WHAT I'VE DECIDED IS TO ALLOW FOR PROPER
16 COMPARISON I'M GOING TO ASK IDENTICAL QUESTIONS TO EACH OF
17 THESE CANDIDATES SO YOU CAN COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. NOW
18 SENATOR OBAMA IS GOING TO GO FIRST. WE FLIPPED A COIN.
19 AND WE HAVE SAFELY PLACED SENATOR MCCAIN IN A CONE OF
20 SILENCE. EACH OF THE INTERVIEWS WILL BE SEGMENTED INTO
21 FOUR DIFFERENT SECTIONS WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A FOUR
22 DIFFERENT THINGS AND THE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN
23 EACH SEGMENT WILL DEPEND ON HOW SUCCINCT THE SENATOR IS.
24 I HAVE TO TELL YOU UP FRONT, BOTH THESE GUYS ARE
25 MY FRIENDS. I DON'T HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING
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1 EITHER OF THEM TEACH OR BELIEVE BUT THEY BOTH CARE DEEPLY
2 ABOUT AMERICA. THEY'RE BOTH PATRIOTS AND THEY HAVE VERY
3 DIFFERENT VIEWS ON HOW AMERICA CAN BE STRENGTHENED IN
4 AMERICA. WE'VE GOT TO LEARN TO DISAGREE WITHOUT
5 DEMONIZING EACH OTHER AND WE NEED TO RESTORE CIVILITY. WE
6 NEED TO RESTORE CIVILITY IN OUR CIVIL DISCOURSE AND THAT'S
7 THE GOAL OF THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM. SO LET'S GET
8 STARTED AND WILL YOU WELCOME SENATOR BARACK OBAMA. THANK
9 YOU. GOOD TO SEE YOU. HOW ARE YOU DOING?
10 A GOOD.
11 Q GOOD TO SEE YOU. I'M GLAD YOU ARE HERE. THANK
12 YOU FOR BEING HERE.
13 A THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
14 Q IF YOU WERE A TREE --
15 A PRETTY GOOD CROWD YOU GOT HERE. YOU GOT A GOOD
16 CROWD.
17 Q WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT ISSUES,
18 BARACK. THE FIRST YOUR IS ON LEADERSHIP.
19 A RIGHT.
20 Q THESE FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS DEAL WITH YOUR
21 PERSONAL LIFE AS A LEADER AND I'M NOT GOING TO DO THIS
22 WITH ANY OTHER SEGMENT, BUT AS PASTOR I'VE GOT SOME VERSES
23 THAT HAVE TO DO WITH LEADERSHIP. THE FIRST ISSUE IS THE
24 AREA OF LISTENING. THERE IS A VERSUS IN PROVERBS THAT
25 SAYS FOOLS THINK THEY NEED NO ADVICE BUT WISE LISTEN TO
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1 OTHER PEOPLE. WHO ARE THE THREE WISEST PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN
2 YOUR LIFE AND WHO ARE YOU GOING TO RELY ON HEAVILY IN YOUR
3 ADMINISTRATION?
4 A WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME THANK YOU FOR HAVING
5 ME HERE, RICK.
6 Q YOU'RE WELCOME.
7 A I LOVE THE MINISTRIES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE HERE
8 AT SADDLEBACK THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I'VE BEEN HERE.
9 FIRST TIME WE HAD A WONDERFUL TIME --
10 ARE CONSTANTLY HELPING TO SHAPE MY VIEWS AND MY
11 OPINIONS. YOU MENTIONED ONE PERSON ID BE LISTENING TO AND
12 THAT'S MICHELLE, MY WIFE, WHO IS NOT ONLY WISE BUT SHE'S
13 HONEST. AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU NEED -- I THINK ANY
14 LEADER NEEDS IS SOMEBODY WHO CAN GET UP IN YOUR FACE AND
15 SAY, BOY, YOU REALLY SCREWED THAT ONE UP. YOU REALLY BLEW
16 THAT.
17 Q YOUR WIFE'S LIKE THAT TOO?
18 A YES. YES. SO -- SO THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.
19 ANOTHER PERSON IN THAT CATEGORY IS MY GRANDMOTHER WHO'S AN
20 EXTRAORDINARY WOMAN. SHE WAS NEVER WENT TO COLLEGE. SHE
21 WORKED ON A BOMBER ASSEMBLY LINE DURING WORLD WAR II WHEN
22 MY GRANDFATHER WAS AWAY, CAME BACK, GOT A JOB AS A
23 SECRETARY, WORKED HER WAY UP TO BECOME A BANK VICE
24 PRESIDENT BEFORE SHE RETIRED AND SHE'S JUST A VERY
25 GROUNDED COMMON SENSE NO FUSS NO FRILL KIND OF PERSON AND
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1 WHEN I'VE GOT BIG DECISIONS I OFTEN CHECK IN WITH HER.
2 LOST FEED.
3 IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATION OR HOW I WOULD
4 APPROACH THE PRESIDENCY, I DON'T THINK I'D RESTRICT MYSELF
5 TO THREE PEOPLE. THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE SAM DUNN A
6 DEMOCRAT OR DICK LUKER A REPUBLICAN WHO I LISTENED TO ON
7 POLICY ON DOMESTIC POLICY. I GOT FRIENDS RANGING FROM TED
8 KENNEDY TO TOM COLBERT WHO DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE ON A
9 LOT OF THINGS BUT WHO BOTH, I THINK, HAVE A SINCERE DESIRE
10 TO SEE THIS COUNTRY IMPROVE. WHAT I FOUND IS VERY HELPFUL
11 TO ME IS TO HAVE A TABLE WHERE A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS
12 OF VIEW ARE REPRESENTED AND WHERE I CAN SIT AND POKE AND
13 PROD AND ASK THEM QUESTIONS.
14 Q YEAH.
15 A SO THAT I'M NOT -- SO THAT ANY BLIND SPOTS I HAVE
16 OR PREDISPOSITIONS THAT I HAVE THAT MY ASSUMPTIONS ARE
17 CHALLENGED AND I THINK THAT THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY
18 IMPORTANT.
19 Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S TALK ABOUT PERSONAL
20 LIFE. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT INTEGRITY AND LOVE ARE THE
21 BASIS FOR LEADERSHIP. THIS IS A TOUGH QUESTION, WHAT
22 WOULD BE LOOKING OVER YOUR LIFE, EVERYBODY'S GOT WINGS,
23 NOBODY'S PERFECT, WOULD BE THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE IN
24 YOUR LIFE AND WHAT WOULD BE THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE OF
25 AMERICA?
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1 A WELL, IN MY OWN LIFE -- I'D BREAK IT UP IN
2 STAGES. I HAD A DIFFICULT YOUTH. MY FATHER WASN'T IN THE
3 HOUSE. I'VE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE
4 TIMES WHERE I EXPERIMENTED WITH DRUGS. I DRANK, YOU KNOW,
5 IN MY TEENAGE YEARS AND WHAT I TRACED THIS TO IS A CERTAIN
6 SELFISH NECESSARY ON MY PART. I WAS SO OBSESSED WITH ME
7 AND YOU KNOW THE REASONS THAT I MIGHT BE DISSATISFIED THAT
8 I COULDN'T FOCUS ON OTHER PEOPLE. AND YOU KNOW I THINK
9 THE PROCESS FOR ME OF GROWING UP WAS TO RECOGNIZE THAT
10 IT'S NOT ABOUT ME, IT'S ABOUT --
11 Q I LIKE THAT. I LIKE THAT.
12 A IT'S ABOUT -- ABSOLUTELY, BUT LOOK, THE -- WHEN
13 I -- WHEN I FIND MYSELF TAKING THE WRONG STEP, I THINK A
14 LOT OF THE TIMES IT'S BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO PROTECT MYSELF
15 INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DO GOD'S WORK.
16 Q FUNDAMENTAL SELFISHNESS?
17 A SO THAT I THINK IS MY OWN FAILURE NOW.
18 Q WHAT ABOUT AMERICA?
19 A I THINK AMERICA'S GREATEST MORAL FAILURE IN MY
20 LIFETIME HAS BEEN THAT WE STILL DON'T ABIDE BY THAT BASIC
21 RECEPT IN MATTHEW THAT WHATEVER YOU DO FOR THE LEAST OF MY
22 BROTHERS, YOU DO FOR ME.
23 Q YOU DO FOR ME, YEAH.
24 A AND NOTION OF -- THAT BASIC PRINCIPLE APPLIES TO
25 POVERTY. IT APPLIES TO RACISM AND SEXISM. IT APPLIES TO,
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1 YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING -- NOT THINKING ABOUT PROVIDING
2 LADDERS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE
3 CLASS. I MEAN, THERE IS A PURVASIVE SENSE I THINK THAT
4 THIS COUNTRY IS WEALTHY AND POWERFUL AS WE STILL DON'T
5 SPEND ENOUGH TIME THINKING ABOUT THE LEAST OF THESE --
6 Q ABOUT THE COMMON GOOD, THE COMMON GROUND AND
7 COMMON GOOD.
8 CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A TIME YOU KNOW A
9 LOT -- I'VE SEEN A LOT OF GOOD LEGISLATIONS GETS KILLED
10 BECAUSE OF PARTY LOYALTY. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF
11 WHERE YOU WIN AGAINST PARTY LOYALTY AND MAYBE EVEN WIN
12 AGAINST YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST FOR THE GOOD OF AMERICA?
13 A WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT IN FACT I
14 WORKED WITH JOHN MCCAIN ON AND THAT WAS THE ISSUE OF
15 CAMPAIGN ETHICS REFORM AND FINANCE REFORM. THAT WASN'T
16 PROBABLY IN MY INTEREST OR HIS FOR THAT MATTER BECAUSE THE
17 TRUTH WAS BOTH DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICAN SOR OF LIKE THE
18 STATUS QUO AND I WAS NEW TO THE SENATE AND IT DIDN'T
19 NECESSARILY ENGENDER A LOT OF POPULARITY WHEN I STARTED
20 SAYING YOU KNOW WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE MEALS AND GIFTS
21 FROM CORPORATE LOBBYISTS. I REMEMBER ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES
22 WHOSE NAME WILL BE UNMENTIONED WHO SAID, WELL, WHERE DO
23 YOU EXPECT US TO EAT MCDONALD'S? AND I THOUGHT WELL,
24 ACTUALLY, A LOT OF OUR CONSTITUENTS PROBALBY DO EAT AT
25 MCDONALD'S SO THAT WOULDN'T BE SUCH A BAD THING. BUT I
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1 THINK THAT WE WERE ABLE TO GET A BILL PASSED THAT HASN'T
2 MADE WASHINGTON PERFECT BUT AT LEAST IT MOVING THINGS
3 FORWARD. I GUESS THE OTHER EXAMPLE FROM -- I'M NOT SURE
4 THIS WAS A MORE OF A PARTISAN ISSUE, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING
5 THAT I FELT VERY DEEPLY WAS WHEN I OPPOSED THE INITIAL
6 DECISION TO GO INTO WAR IN IRAQ. THAT WAS A NOT A POPULAR
7 VIEW AT THE TIME AND I WAS JUST STARTING MY CAMPAIGN FOR
8 THE UNITED STATES SENATE AND I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF
9 PEOPLE WHO ADVISED ME, YOU SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS. THIS IS
10 GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL. THE PRESIDENT HAS A VERY HIGH
11 APPROVAL RATING AND YOU COULD END UP LOSING THE ELECTION
12 AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS.
13 Q LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY: A LOT OF TIMES
14 CANDIDATES ARE ACCUSED OF FLIP FLOPPING, BUT ACTUALLY
15 SOMETIMES FLIPI FLOPPING IS SMART BECAUSE YOU HAVE DECIDED
16 A BETTER POSITION BASED ON KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE?
17 A RIGHT.
18 Q WHAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POSITION YOU HELD TEN
19 YEARS AGO THAT YOU NO LONGER HOLD TODAY, THAT YOU FLIPPED
20 ON, YOU CHANGED ON BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY SEE IT
21 DIFFERENTLY?
22 A BECAUSE I ACTUALLY CHANGED MY MIND.
23 Q YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND, EXACTLY?
24 A YOU KNOW I'M TRYING TO THINK BACK TEN YEARS AGO.
25 I THINK THAT A GOOD EXAMPLE WOULD BE THE ISSUE OF WELFARE
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1 REFORM WHERE I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT WELFARE HAD TO BE
2 CHANGED. I WAS MUCH MORE CONCERNED TEN YEARS AGO WHEN
3 PRESIDENT CLINTON INITIALLY SIGNED THE BILL THAT THIS
4 COULD HAVE DISASTEROUS RESULTS. I WORKED IN THE ILLINOIS
5 LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SURE WE WERE PROVIDING CHILD CARE AND
6 HEALTH CARE AND OTHER SUPPORT SERVICES FOR THE WOMEN WHO
7 HAD -- WHO WERE GOING TO BE KICKED OFF THE ROLLS AFTER A
8 CERTAIN TIME. IT HAD -- IT WORKED BETTER THAN I THINK A
9 LOT OF PEOPLE ANTICIPATED AND YOU KNOW ONE OF THINGS THAT
10 I AM ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE WORK
11 AS A CENTER PIECE OF ANY SOCIAL POLICY.
12 Q OKAY.
13 A NOT ONLY BECAUSE DID -- NOT ONLY BECAUSE PEOPLE
14 WHO WORK ARE ULTIMATELY GOING TO GET MORE INCOME -- LOST
15 FEED -- I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT DEMOCRATS GENERALLY
16 I THINK HAVE MADE A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT ON.
17 Q WHAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT -- LET ME ASK IT THIS
18 WAY: WHAT'S THE MOST GUT WRENCHING DECISION YOU'VE EVER
19 HAD TO MAKE AND HOW DID YOU PROCESS THAT, COME TO THAT
20 DECISION?
21 A WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE OPPOSITION TO THE WAR
22 IN IRAQ WAS AS TOUGH A DECISION THAT I'VE HAD TO MAKE NOT
23 ONLY BECAUSE THERE WERE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES BUT ALSO
24 BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSIEM WAS A BAD PERSON AND THERE WAS NO
25 DOUBT THAT HE MET AMERICA ILL, BUT I WAS FIRMLY CONVINCED
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1 AT THE TIME THAT WE DID NOT HAVE STRONG EVIDENCE OF
2 WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND THERE WERE A LOT OF
3 QUESTIONS THAT AS I SPOKE TO EXPERTS KEPT ON COMING UP, DO
4 WE KNOW HOW THE SHIITES AND THE SUNNIS AND THE KURDS ARE
5 GOING TO GET ALONG IN A POST SADDAM SITUATION, WHAT'S OUR
6 ASSESSMENT AS TO HOW THIS WILL AFFECT THE BATTLE AGAINST
7 TERRORIST LIKE AL-QAEDA, HAVE WE FINISHED THE JOB IN
8 AFGHANISTAN SO I AGONIZED OVER THAT AND I THINK QUESTIONS
9 OF WAR AND PEACE GENERALLY ARE SO PROFOUND YOU KNOW WHEN
10 YOU MEET THE TROOPS, THEY ARE 19, 20, 21-YEAR OLD KIDS AND
11 YOU ARE PUTTING THEM INTO HARM'S WAY THERE IS A SOLEMN
12 OBLIGATION THAT YOU DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO GET THAT
13 DECISION RIGHT. AND NOW AS THE WAR WENT FORWARD, VERY
14 DIFFICULT ABOUT HOW LONG DO YOU KEEP FUNDING THE WAR IF
15 YOU STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT IT'S NOT AMERICA'S NATIONAL
16 INTEREST AT THE SAME TIME YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TROOPS
17 WHO ARE OUT THERE WITHOUT THE EQUIPMENT THEY NEED. SO
18 THAT ALL THOSE QUESTIONS SURROUNDING THE WAR HAVE BEEN
19 VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME.
20 Q WE'LL BE BACK AND WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WORLD
21 VIEW IN THE NEXT SECTION
22
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24
25
9
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BEING TAKEN.
PART 2
Q. EVERYTHING GOT A WORLDVIEW. A BUDDHIST, A
10 BAPTIST, A SECULAR AN ATHEIST EVERYBODY'S GOT A
11 WORLDVIEW. I WROTE OR INVITED PEOPLE WHO GET MY
12 NEWSLETTER TO RIGHT IN THEIR QUESTIONS. WE HAVE ABOUT
13 200,000 QUESTIONS THAT CAME IN AND --
14 A. I ONLY HAVE --
15 Q. I ONLY HAVE 500 IN THIS SECTION. SO NO MATTER
16 HOW YOU ANSWER THESE WORLDVIEW QUESTIONS, SOMEBODY IS
17 NOT GOING TO LIKE THEM BECAUSE WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT
18 KINDS OF WORLDVIEWS IN AMERICA, BUT PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW
19 WHAT YOUR WORLDVIEW IS SO AS WE GO THROUGH IT.
20 THESE MINDFIELDS. LET'S KIND OF TIC THEM OFF.
21 THE MINDFIELDS OF AMERICA. THE FIRST ONE IS
22 CHRISTIANTY. NOW YOU'VE MADE NO DOUBT ABOUT YOUR FAITH
23 IN JESUS CHRIST. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? WHAT
24 DOES IT MEAN TO YOU TO TRUST IN CHRIST AND WHAT DOES IT
25 MEAN ON A DAILY BASIS? I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT REALLY
1 LOOK LIKE?
2 A. AS A STARTING POINT, IT MEANS I BELIEVE IN
3 THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR MY SINS AND THAT I AM
4 REDEEMED THROUGH HIM. THAT IS A SOURCE OF STRENGTH AND
5 SUSTENANCE ON A DAILY BASIS. I KNOW THAT I DON'T WALK
6 ALONE, AND I KNOW THAT IF I CAN GET MYSELF OUT OF THE
7 WAY, THAT I CAN MAYBE CARRY OUT IN SOME SMALL WAY WHAT
8 HE INTENDS. AND IT MEANS THAT THOSE SINS THAT I HAVE
9 ON A FAIRLY REGULAR BASIS HOPEFULLY WILL BE WASHED
10 AWAY.
11 BUT WHAT IT ALSO MEANS, I THINK, IS A SENSE
12 OF OBLIGATION TO EMBRACE NOT JUST WORDS BUT THROUGH
13 DEEDS THE EXPECTATIONS THAT GOD HAS FOR US. AND THAT
14 MEANS THINKING ABOUT THE LEAST OF THESE. IT MEANS
15 ACTING -- WELL, ACTING JUSTLY AND LOVING MERCY AND
16 WALKING HUMBLY WITH OUR GOD. AND THAT, I THINK TRYING
17 TO APPLY THOSE LESSONS ON A DAILY BASIS KNOWING THAT
18 YOU ARE GOING TO FALL A LITTLE BIT SHORT EACH DAY AND
19 KIND OF TRYING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE NOTE AND SAY, WELL,
20 THAT DIDN'T QUITE WORK OUT THE WAY I THINK IT SHOULD
21 HAVE BUT MAYBE I CAN GET A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
22 IT GIVES ME THE CONFIDENCE TO TRY THINGS
23 INCLUDING THINGS LIKE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WHERE ARE
24 YOU GOING TO SCREW UP ONCE IN A WHILE.
25 Q. OKAY. LET'S GO THROUGH THE TOUGH ONES.
1 A. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY TOUGH.
2 Q. NO THAT WAS A FREEBIE. THAT WAS A GIMME.
3 THAT IT WAS A GIMME.
4 NOW, LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION
5 ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE. YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I
6 HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE
7 PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY
8 COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT
9 DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?
10 A. WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT
11 IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC
12 PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY,
13 YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. BUT LET ME JUST SPEAK
14 MORE GENERALLY ABOUT THE ISSUE OF ABORTION BECAUSE THIS
15 IS SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THE COUNTRY WRESTLES WITH. ONE
16 THING THAT I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED OF IS THERE IS A
17 MORAL AND ETHICAL CONTENT TO THIS ISSUE. SO I THINK
18 THAT ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO DENY THE MORAL DIFFICULTIES
19 AND GRAVITY OF THE ABORTION ISSUE I THINK IS NOT PAYING
20 ATTENTION. SO THAT WOULD BE POINT NUMBER ONE.
21 BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, I AM PRO-CHOICE. I
22 BELIEVE IN ROE V. WADE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION NOT
23 BECAUSE I'M PRO ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY I
24 DON'T THINK WOMEN MAKE THESE DECISIONS CASUALLY. THEY
25 WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS IN PROFOUND WAYS. IN
1 CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PASTORS OR SPOUSES OR THEIR
2 DOCTORS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO FOR ME, THE
3 GOAL RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE -- AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK
4 WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND AND BY THE WAY I HAVE NOW
5 INSERTED THIS INTO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM IS HOW
6 DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS BECAUSE THE FACT
7 IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE'VE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO IS OPPOSED
8 TO ABORTIONS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, ABORTIONS HAVE
9 NOT GONE DOWN.
10 Q. HAVE YOU EVER VOTED TO LIMIT OR REDUCE
11 ABORTIONS?
12 A. I AM IN FAVOR, FOR EXAMPLE, OF LIMITS ON LATE
13 TERM ABORTIONS IF THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THE
14 MOTHER'S HEALTH. NOW FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THOSE
15 WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE PRO LIFE, I THINK THEY WOULD
16 CONSIDER THAT INADEQUATE. AND I RESPECT THEIR VIEWS.
17 I MEAN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE ALWAYS SAID IS THAT
18 ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT LIFE
19 BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, THEN -- AND YOU ARE CONSISTENT IN
20 THAT BELIEF, THEN I CAN'T ARGUE WITH YOU ON THAT
21 BECAUSE THAT IS A CORE ISSUE OF FAITH FOR YOU.
22 WHAT I CAN DO IS SAY ARE THERE WAYS THAT WE
23 CAN WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNWANTED
24 PREGNANCIES SO THAT WE ACTUALLY ARE REDUCING THE SENSE
25 THAT WOMEN ARE SEEKING OUT ABORTIONS, AND AS AN EXAMPLE
1 OF THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT IS
2 HOW DO WE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT ALLOW WOMEN TO
3 MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP A CHILD. YOU KNOW, HAVE WE
4 GIVEN THEM THE HEALTH CARE THAT THEY NEED. HAVE WE
5 GIVEN THEM THE SUPPORT SERVICES THAT THEY NEED. HAVE
6 WE GIVEN THEM THE OPTIONS OF ADOPTION THAT ARE
7 NECESSARY. THAT I THINK CAN MAKE A GENUINE DIFFERENCE.
8 Q. THERE'S A LOT MORE I'D LIKE TO ASK ON THAT BUT
9 WE'VE GOT 15 OTHER QUESTIONS HERE.
10 DEFINE MARRIAGE.
11 A. I BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS THE UNION BETWEEN A
12 MAN AND A WOMAN. NOW FOR ME AS A CHRISTIAN -- FOR ME
13 -- FOR ME AS A CHRISTIAN IT'S ALSO A SACRED UNION.
14 GOD'S IN THE MIX. BUT --
15 Q. WOULD YOU SUPPORT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
16 WITH THAT DEFINITION?
17 A. NO, I WOULD NOT.
18 Q. WHY NOT?
19 A. BECAUSE HISTORICALLY -- BECAUSE HISTORICALLY
20 WE HAVE NOT DEFINED MARRIAGE IN OUR CONSTITUTION. IT'S
21 BEEN A MATTER OF STATE LAW THAT HAS BEEN OUR TRADITION.
22 LET'S BREAK IT DOWN. THE REASON THAT PEOPLE
23 THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT,
24 SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE, IS BECAUSE OF THE CONCERN THAT
25 ABOUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE.
1 I AM NOT SOMEBODY WHO PROMOTES SAME SEX
2 MARRIAGE BUT I DO BELIEVE IN CIVIL UNIONS. I DO
3 BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD NOT -- THAT FOR A GAY PARTNERS
4 TO WANT TO VISIT EACH OTHER IN THE HOSPITAL FOR THE
5 STATE TO SAY YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S ALL RIGHT, I DON'T
6 THINK IN ANY WAY INHIBITS MY CORE BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT
7 MARRIAGE ARE. I THINK MY FAITH IS STRONG ENOUGH AND MY
8 MARRIAGE IS STRONG ENOUGH THAT I CAN AFFORD THOSE CIVIL
9 RIGHTS TO OTHERS EVEN IF I HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE
10 OR A DIFFERENT VIEW.
11 Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT THIS, WHAT ABOUT STEM CELLS.
12 NOW WE'VE HAD THIS SCIENTIFIC BREAK THROUGH OF CREATING
13 THESE PLURY POTENT STEM CELLS IN ADULT CELLS. DO WE
14 STILL NEED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR RESEARCH? WOULD YOU
15 STILL SUPPORT THAT FOR EMBRYO STEM CELLS?
16 A. KEEP IN MIND THE WAY THAT STEM CELLS
17 LEGISLATION THAT WAS VETOED BY THE PRESIDENT WAS
18 STRUCTURED, WHAT IT SAID WAS YOU COULD ONLY USE EMBRYOS
19 THAT WERE ABOUT TO BE DISCARDED, THAT HAD BEEN CREATED
20 AS A CONSEQUENCE OF ATTEMPTS AT IN VITRO FERTILIZATION.
21 SO THERE WERE VERY TIGHTLY CIRCUMSCRIBED MECHANISMS
22 THAT WERE PERMITTED. I THINK THAT THAT IS A LEGITIMATE
23 MORAL APPROACH TO TAKE.
24 IF WE ARE GOING TO DISCARD THOSE EMBRYOS AND
25 WE KNOW THAT THERE'S POTENTIAL RESEARCH THAT COULD LEAD
1 TO CURING DEBILITATING DISEASE, ALZHEIMER'S, LOU
2 GEHRIG'S DISEASE, IF THAT POSSIBILITY PRESENTS ITSELF
3 THEN I THINK WE SHOULD IN A CAREFUL WAY GO AHEAD AND
4 PURSUE THAT RESEARCH.
5 NOW, IF IN FACT ADULT STEM CELL LINES ARE
6 WORKING JUST AS WELL, THEN OF COURSE WE SHOULD TRY TO
7 AVOID ANY KIND OF MORAL ARGUMENTS THAT MAY BE IN PLACE.
8 BUT I WANT TO MAKE A BROADER POINT, PASTOR
9 RICK ON AN ISSUE LIKE TEN CELL RESEARCH. IT'S NOT LIKE
10 PEOPLE WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF STEM CELL RESEARCH ARE GOING
11 AROUND THINKING TO THEMSELVES BOY LET'S GO DESTROY SOME
12 EMBRYOS. THAT'S NOT THE PERSPECTIVE THAT I THINK
13 PEOPLE COME TO THAT ISSUE ON. I THINK WHAT THEY SAY IS
14 WE WOULD NOT TOLERATE A SITUATION IN WHICH, YOU KNOW,
15 WE'RE ENCOURAGING HUMAN CLONING OR IN SOME WAYS
16 DIMINISHING THE SACRED NECESSARY OF HUMAN LIFE AND WHAT
17 IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN, BUT THAT IN NARROW CIRCUMSTANCES,
18 YOU KNOW, THERE IS NOTHING INAPPROPRIATE WITH US
19 PURSUING SCIENTIFIC RE CERTAIN OF THAT COULD LEAD TO
20 CURES SO LONG AS WE'RE NOT DESIGNING EMBRYOS FOR THAT
21 PURPOSE.
22 Q. OKAY WE'VE GOT ONE LAST TIME -- I'VE GOT A
23 BUNCH MORE ABOUT LET ME ASK YOU ONE IN EVIL. DOES EVIL
24 EXIST AND IF IT DOES DO WE IGNORE IT, DO WE NEGOTIATE
25 WITH IT, DO WE CONTAIN IT OR DO WE DEFEAT IT?
1 A. EVIL DOES EXIST. I MEAN, WE SEE EVIL ALL THE
2 TIME. WE SEE EVIL IN DARFUR. WE SEE EVIL SADLY ON THE
3 STREETS OF OUR CITIES. WE SEE EVIL IN PARENTS WHO HAVE
4 VICIOUSLY ABUSED THEIR CHILDREN AND I THINK IT HAS TO
5 BE CONFRONTED. IT HAS TO BE CONFRONTED SQUARELY AND
6 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I STRONGLY BELIEVE IS THAT, YOU
7 KNOW, WE ARE NOT GOING TO, AS INDIVIDUALS, BE ABLE TO
8 ERASE EVIL FROM THE WORLD. THAT IS GOD'S TASK. BUT WE
9 CAN BE SOLDERS IN THAT PROCESS AND WE CAN CONFRONT IT
10 WHEN WE SEE IT.
11 NOW, THE ONE THINK THAT I THINK IS VERY
12 IMPORTANT IS FOR US TO HAVE SOME HUMILITY IN HOW WE
13 APPROACH THE ISSUE OF CON FRONTING EVIL, BUT YOU KNOW A
14 LOT OF EVIL HAS BEEN PERPETRATED BASED ON THE CLAIM
15 THAT WE WERE TRYING TO CONFRONT EVIL.
16 Q. IN THE NAME OF GOOD?
17 A. INTO THE NAME OF GOOD. AND I THINK ONE THING
18 THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT IS HAVING SOME HUMILITY IN
19 RECOGNIZING THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE WE THINK OUR
20 INTENTIONS ARE GOOD DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN THAT WE'RE
21 GOING TO BE DOING GOOD.
22 Q. ALL RIGHT LET'S MOVE ON TO SOME DOMESTIC
23 ISSUE. DON'T GIVE ME YOUR STUMP SPEECH ON THESE.
24 LET'S GO THROUGH IT.
25 A. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS HARD. I'VE BEEN ON THE
1 STUMP FOR A LONG TIME.
2 Q. I KNOW IT IS.
3 A. ALL RIGHT.
4 Q. THE COURTS. LET ME ASK IT THIS WAY. WHICH
5 EXISTING SUPREME COURT JUSTICE WOULD YOU NOT HAVE
6 NOMINATED?
7 A. THAT'S A GOOD ONE. THAT'S A GOOD ONE.
8 I WOULD NOT HAVE NOMINATED CLARENCE THOMAS.
9 I DON'T THINK THAT HE. I DON'T THINK THAT HE WAS A
10 STRONG ENOUGH JURIST OR LEGAL THINKER AT THE TIME FOR
11 THAT ELEVATION. SETTING ASIDE THE FACT THAT I
12 PROFOUNDLY DISAGREE WITH HIS INTERPRETATION OF A LOT OF
13 CONSTITUTION. I WOULD NOT NOMINATE JUSTICE SCALIA
14 ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT ABOUT HIS
15 INTELLECTUAL BRILLIANCE BECAUSE HE AND I JUST DISAGREE,
16 YOU KNOW. HE TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO AS DID I
17 IN THE LAW SCHOOL.
18 Q. HOW ABOUT JOHN ROBERTS?
19 A. JOHN ROBERTS I HAVE TO SAY WAS A TOUGHER
20 QUESTION ONLY BECAUSE I FIND HIM TO BE A VERY
21 COMPELLING PERSON, YOU KNOW, IN SERVICES INDIVIDUALLY.
22 HE'S CLEARLY SMART, VERY THOUGHTFUL. I WILL TELL YOU
23 THAT HOW I'VE SEEN HIM OPERATE SINCE HE WENT TO THE
24 BENCH CONFIRMS THE SUSPICIONS THAT I HAD AND THE REASON
25 THAT I VOTED AGAINST HIM AND I'LL GIVE YOU ONE VERY
1 SPECIFIC INSTANCE AND THIS IS NOT A STUMP SPEECH.
2 Q. ALL RIGHT. WHEN I PICK THIS UP IT MEANS --
3 A. EXACTLY. I'M GETTING THE CUES. I'M GETTING
4 THE CUES.
5 ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOBS OF I BELIEVE
6 THE SUPREME COURT IS TO GUARD AGAINST THE ENCROACHMENT
7 OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ON THE POWER OF THE OTHER
8 BRANCHES AND I THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT TOO
9 WILLING AND TOO EAGER TO GIVE AN ADMINISTRATION WHETHER
10 IT'S MINE OR GEORGE BUSH'S MORE POWER THAN I THINK THE
11 CONSTITUTION ORIGINALLY INTENDED.
12 Q. OKAY. THE ROLE OF FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS,
13 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS BELIEVE FAITH BASED
14 ORGANIZATION DO A BETTER JOB AT COMMUNITY SERVICES THAN
15 THE GOVERNMENT HELPING ADDICTIONS, YOU KNOW, PRISONER
16 REENTRY, ALL THE DIFFERENT HOMELESSNESS, POVERTY,
17 THINGS LIKE THAT.
18 THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF '64 SAYS THAT FAITH
19 BASED ORGANIZATIONS HAVE THE RIGHT TO HIRE PEOPLE THAT
20 BELIEVE LIKE THEY DO.
21 WOULD YOU INSIST THAT FAITH BASED
22 ORGANIZATIONS FORFEIT THAT RIGHT TO ACCESS FEDERAL
23 FUNDS?
24 A. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK YOU ARE AWARE,
25 PASTOR RICK, THAT I GAVE A SPEECH EARLIER THIS SUMMER
1 PROMOTING FAITH BASED INITITIVES. I THINK THAT WE
2 SHOULD HAVE AND ALL HANDS ON DECK APPROACH WHEN IT
3 COMES TO ISSUES LIKE POVERTY AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE. AND
4 AS SOMEBODY WHO GOT MY START OUT OF COLLEGE WORKING
5 WITH CHURCHES WHO WERE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE
6 DEVASTATION OF STEEL PLANTS CLOSING IN THE SOUTH SIDE
7 OF CHICAGO, I KNOW THE POWER OF FAITH BASED
8 INSTITUTIONS TO GET STUFF DONE.
9 WHAT I HAVE SAID IS THAT WHEN IT COMES, FIRST
10 OF ALL, TO FUNDING FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS, THEY ARE
11 ALWAYS FREE TO HIRE WHOEVER THEY WANT WHEN IT COMES TO
12 THEIR OWN MISSION, WHO THEIR PASTOR IS, THE VARIOUS
13 MINISTRIES THAT THEY WANT TO SET UP, BUT -- AND THIS
14 HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING RULE.
15 Q. CHRISTIAN COLLEGE, CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY?
16 A. ABSOLUTELY. WHEN IT COMES TO THE PERHAPS THAT
17 ARE FEDERALLY FUNDING , THEN WE DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL
18 TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT CREATING A SITUATION WHERE
19 PEOPLE ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST USING FEDERAL
20 MONEY. THAT'S NOT NEW. THAT'S A CONCEPT THAT WAS TRUE
21 UNDER THE CLINTON ADMINISTER, THAT WAS TRUE UNDER THE
22 BUSH ADMINISTRATION. THEIR ARE IN 95 PERCENT OF THE
23 CIRCUMSTANCES IT'S NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE
24 CAREFUL ABOUT HOW THEY USE THE FUNDS.
25 THERE ARE SOME TOUGH ISSUES, 5 PERCENT OF THE
1 SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT SAY YOU KNOW I WANT TO
2 HIRE SOMEBODY OF MY FAITH FOR A PROGRAM THAT IS FULLY
3 FUNDED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WE'RE OFFERING
4 SERVICES TO THE PUBLIC.
5 Q. FOR INSTANCE LIKE IN RELIEF. LIKE IN KATRINA.
6 IF I TOOK PEOPLE TO KATRINA AND I WANTED TO HIRE SOME
7 PEOPLE TO DO RELIEF, I WOULD STILL -- IF I TOOK FEDERAL
8 MONEY TO HELP IN THAT RELIEF I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY,
9 I ONLY WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE LIKE WE DO?
10 A. IT'S ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THE DELVE
11 IS IN THE DETAILS. I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING FAITH
12 BASED ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ADVANTAGED OR
13 DISADVANTAGED WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING FEDERAL FUNDS BY
14 VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE FAITH-BASED
15 ORGANIZATIONS. THEY JUST WANT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD
16 BUT WHAT WE DO WANT TO MAKE SURE OF IS THAT AS A
17 GENERAL PRINCIPAL WE'RE NOT USING FEDERAL FUNDING TO
18 DISCRIMINATED BUT THAT IS ONLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE
19 NARROW PROGRAM THAT IS BEING FUNDED BY THE FEDERAL
20 GOVERNMENT. THAT DOES NOT AFFECT ANY OF THE OTHER
21 MINISTRIES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE.
22 Q. OKAY LET'S GO TO EDUCATION. AMERICA RIGHT NOW
23 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION. WE'RE FIRST IN
24 INCARCERATIONS.
25 A. NOT GOOD.
1 Q. NOT GOOD. 80 PERCENT OF AMERICANS RECENT POLE
2 SAID THEY BELIEVE IN MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS. I'M NOT
3 ASKING DO YOU THINK ALL TEACHERS SHOULD GET A RAISE.
4 DO YOU THINK BETTER TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BETTER.
5 THEY SHOULD BE MADE MORE THAN POOR TEACHERS?
6 A. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, AND I'VE SAID THIS
7 PUBLICLY. THAT WE SHOULD SAID UP A SYSTEM OF
8 PERFORMANCE PAY FOR TEACHERS NEGOTIATED WITH TEACHERS,
9 WORKED WITH THE TEACHERS TO FIGURE OUT THE ASSESSMENT
10 SO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING JUDGED FAIRLY THAT IT
11 IS NOT A THE WHIM OF THE PRINCIPAL THAT IS IT NOT BASED
12 ON A SINGLE HIGH TESTS, BUT THE BASIC NOTION THAT
13 TEACHING IS A PROFESSION, THAT TEACHERS ARE UNDERPAID
14 SO WE NEED TO PAY THEM ALL MORE AND CREATE A HIGHER
15 BASE LINE BUT THEN WE SHOULD ALSO REWARD EXCELLENCE. I
16 THINK THAT IS A CONCEPT THAT ALL OF US SHOULD EMBRACE.
17 Q. OKAY. TAXES. THIS IS A REAL SIMPLE QUESTION.
18 DEFINE RICH. I MEAN, GIVE ME A NUMBER. IS IT 50,000,
19 100,000, 200,000? EVERYBODY KEEPS TALKING ABOUT WELL
20 HERE WE'RE GOING TO TAX. HOW DO YOU DEFINE THAT?
21 A. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT BOOK SALES OF 25
22 MILLION AND YOU QUALIFY --
23 Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT ASKING ABOUT ME.
24 A. LOOK, HERE IS HOW I THINK BIT. HERE IS HOW I
25 THINK BIT AND THIS IS REFLECTED IN MY TAX PLAN. IF YOU
1 ARE MAKING $150 THOUSAND A YEAR OR LESS AS A FAMILY,
2 THEN ARE YOU MIDDLE CLASS OR YOU MAY BE POOR. BUT $150
3 DOWN, YOU ARE BASICALLY MIDDLE CLASS. OBVIOUSLY IT
4 DEPENDS ON REGION WHERE YOU ARE LIVING.
5 Q. IN THIS REGION YOU ARE POOR.
6 A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HOUSING PRICES HAVE
7 BEEN DOING LATELY.
8 I WOULD ARGUE THAT IF YOU ARE MAKING MORE
9 THAN $250,000 THEN ARE YOU IN THE TOP 3, 4 PERCENT OF
10 THIS COUNTRY. ARE YOU DOING WELL. NOW THESE THINGS
11 ARE ALL RELATIVE AND I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT EVERYBODY
12 THAT IS MAKING OVER $250,000 IS LIVING ON EASY STREET,
13 BUT THE QUESTION THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES
14 IS IF WE BELIEVE IN GOOD SCHOOLS, IF WE BELIEVE IN GOOD
15 ROADS, IF WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT KIDS CAN GO TO
16 COLLEGE, IF WE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE A MOUNTAIN OF DEBT
17 FOR THE NEXT GENERATION, THEN WE'VE GOT TO PAY FOR
18 THESE THINGS. THEY DON'T COME FOR FREE. AND IT IS
19 IRRESPONSIBLE, I BELIEVE IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE INTER
20 GENERATIONALLY FOR US TO INVEST OR FOR US TO SPEND $10
21 BILLION A MONTH ON A WAR AND NOT HAVING A WAY TO PAY
22 FOR IT. THAT I THINK IS UNACCEPTABLE. NOBODY LIKE TO
23 PAY TAXES. I HAVEN'T SOLD 25 MILLION BOOKS BUT I'VE
24 SOLD A LOT OF BOOKS LATELY. I'VE WRITTEN A PRETTY BIG
25 CHECK TO UNCLE SAM. NOBODY LIKES IT.
1 WHAT I'M SAYING IS UNDER THE APPROACH THAT
2 I'M TAKING IF YOU MAKE 150 THOUSAND OR LESS YOU WILL
3 SEE A TAX CUT. IF YOU ARE MAKING $250,000 OR MORE YOU
4 WILL SEE A MONTH DEFENDANTS INCREASE. WHAT I'M TRYING
5 TO DO IS CREATE A SENSE OF BALANCE AND FAIRNESS IN OUR
6 TAX CODE. ONE THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE ON IT SHOULD BE
7 SIMPLER SO YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THESE LOOPHOLES AND BIG
8 STACKS OF STUFF THAT YOU'VE GOT TO COME THROUGH WHICH
9 WASTE A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND ALLOWS SPECIAL
10 INTEREST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THINGS THAT ORDINARY
11 PEOPLE CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
12 Q. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
THE COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES
3 (COMPUTER NOTES, ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPTS, OR DISKS)
4 CANNOT BE USED, CITED, OR CERTIFIED
5 AS THE OFFICIAL RECORD OR CERTIFIED
6 TRANSCRIPT OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY.
7 THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
8 COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES AND THE
9 CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
10 ONLY THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF
11 THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER CAN BE
12 THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY
13 BEING TAKEN.
5 PASTOR RICK: WELCOME BACK TO THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL
6 FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY. IN THIS LAST SESSION, I WANT US
7 TO TALK ABOUT AMERICA'S RESPONSIBILITY TO THE REST OF THE
8 WORLD. WE ARE THE MOST BLESSED NATION IN THE WORLD AND
9 WE'RE BLESSED TO BE A -- BLESSING -- REQUIRED SO LET'S
10 JUST GO DOWN SOME OF THOSE ISSUES, INTERNATIONAL ISSUES.
11 FIRST THING, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT WAR. AS AN AMERICAN,
12 WHAT'S WORTH DYING FOR? WHAT'S WORTH HAVING SACRIFICE OF
13 AMERICAN LIVES FOR?
14 A WELL, OBVIOUSLY AMERICAN FREEDOM, AMERICAN LIVES,
15 AMERICA'S NATIONAL INTERESTS. YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST WITH
16 MY FAMILY ON VACATION IN HAWAII, VISITED THE PLACE WHERE
17 MY GRANDFATHER IS LAID TO REST, THE PUNCHBOWL NATIONAL
18 CEMETERY AND WENT OUT TO ARIZONA, OUT IN PEARL HARBOR AND
19 YOU KNOW YOU ARE REMINDED OF THE SACRIFICES THAT HAD BEEN
20 MADE ON BEHALF OF OUR FREEDOM AND I THINK THAT IS A SOLEMN
21 OBLIGATION THAT WE ALL HAVE. I THINK WE ALSO HAVE FORGED
22 ALLIANCES WITH COUNTRIES, NATO BEING A PRIME EXAMPLE WHERE
23 WE HAVE PLEDGED TO ACT MILITARILY FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE
24 THAT IS IN OUR NATIONAL INTEREST AND THAT IS SOMETHING I
25 THINK WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY.
1
1 Q WHAT WOULD BE THE CRITERIA THAT YOU WOULD COMMIT
2 TROOPS TO END THE GENOCIDE, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE WHAT'S
3 GOING ON IN DARFUR OR COULD HAPPEN IN GEORGIA OR ANYWHERE
4 ELSE, A MASS KILLING?
5 A I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A HARD AND FAST LINE
6 AT WHICH YOU SAY, OKAY, WE ARE GOING IN. I THINK IT IS
7 ALWAYS A JUDGMENT CALL. I THINK THAT THE BASIC PRINCIPLE
8 HAS TO BE THAT IF WE HAVE IT WITHIN OUR POWER TO PREVENT
9 MASS KILLING AND GENOCIDE AND WE CAN WORK IN CONCERT WITH
10 THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO PREVENT IT THEN WE SHOULD
11 ACT. NOW, WE HAVE TO DO SO -- WE HAVE TO DO SO I THINK
12 THAT INTERNATIONAL COMPONENT IS VERY CRITICAL. WE'RE
13 NOT -- WE MAY NOT GET 100 PERCENT AGREEMENT, BUT --
14 Q -- GO TO THE WAR WITHOUT APPROVAL?
15 A YES, BUT I THINK YOU TAKE AN EXAMPLE LIKE BOSNIA
16 WHEN WE WENT IN AND UNDOUBTEDLY SAVED LIVES. WE DID NOT
17 HAVE YOU UN APPROVAL BUT THERE WAS A STRONG INTERNATIONAL
18 CASE THAT HAD BEEN MADE THAT ETHNIC CLEANSING WAS TAKING
19 PLACE. AND UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN WE HAVE, WITHIN
20 OUR POWER, WE SHOULD -- YOU KNOW WE SHOULD TAKE ACTION.
21 Q OKAY. THIS ONE IS DEAR TO MY HEART. MOST PEOPLE
22 DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ARE 148 MILLION OTHER FANS IN THE
23 WORLD, 148 MILLION KIDS GROWING UP WITHOUT MOMMIES AND
24 DADS. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN AN ORPHANAGE, THEY NEED TO
25 BE IN FAMILIES BUT A LOT OF FAMILIES CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE
2
1 THESE KIDS IN.
2 A RIGHT.
3 Q WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CONSIDER AND EVEN COMMIT
4 TO DOING SOME KIND OF EMERGENCY PLAN FOR OTHER FANS LIKE
5 PRESIDENT BUSH DID WITH AIDS ALMOST A PRESIDENT'S
6 EMERGENCY PLAN FOR ORPHANS TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE?
7 A I CHEATED A LITTLE BIT. I ACTUALLY LOOKED AT
8 THIS IDEA AHEAD OF TIME AND I THINK IT IS A -- I THINK
9 IT'S A GREAT IDEA. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD
10 SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT WORKING BETWEEN NONGOVERNMENTAL
11 ORGANIZATIONS, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, THE US
12 GOVERNMENT, TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN WE DO. I THINK
13 THAT PART OF OUR PLAN THOUGH HAS TO BE HOW DO WE PREVENT
14 MORE ORPHANS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE
15 HELPING TO BUILD THE PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND
16 THE WORLD, THAT WE ARE YOU KNOW BUILDING ON THE GREAT WORK
17 THAT YOU AND, BY THE WAY, THIS PRESIDENT HAS DONE WHEN IT
18 COMES TO AIDS FUNDING AROUND THE WORLD. I THINK YOU KNOW
19 I'M OFTEN A CRITIC OF PRESIDENT BUSH BUT I THINK THE
20 PETFAR PROGRAM HAS SAVED LIVES AND HAS DONE VERY GOOD WORK
21 AND HE DESERVES ENORMOUS CREDIT FOR THAT.
22 Q RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE US
23 SHOULD DO TO END RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION FOR INSTANCE IN
24 CHINA, IN IRAQ AND IN MANY OF OUR ALLIES. I'M NOT JUST
25 TALKING ABOUT PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANITY, PARTICUALLY
3
1 WITH THE PERSECUTION AROUND THE WORLD THAT PERSECUTES
2 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE?
3 A WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO DO IS TO
4 BEAR WITNESS AND SPEAK OUT AND NOT PRETEND THAT IT'S NOT
5 TAKING PLACE. YOU KNOW OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA FOR
6 EXAMPLE IS A VERY COMPLICATED ONE. WE'RE TRADING PARTNERS
7 UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE NOW LENDERS TO US BECAUSE WE
8 HAVEN'T BEEN TAKING CARE OF OUR ECONOMY THE WAY WE NEED TO
9 BE. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO SEE MILITARY CONFLICT
10 WITH CHINA SO WE WANT TO MANAGE THIS RELATIONSHIP AND MOVE
11 THEM INTO THE WORLD COMMUNITY AS A FULL PARTNER BUT WE
12 CAN'T PURCHASE THAT BY IGNORING THE VERY REAL PERSECUTIONS
13 THAT ARE TAKING PLACE. AND SO HAVING ADMINISTRATION
14 THAT'S SPEAKING OUT, JOINING IN INTERNATIONAL FORUMS WHERE
15 WE CAN POINT OUT HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AND THE ABSENCE OF
16 RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, THAT I THINK IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.
17 OVER TIME, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS SETTING UP NEW NORMS AND
18 CREATING A UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE THAT PEOPLE'S FAITH AND
19 PEOPLE'S BELIEFS HAVE TO BE PROTECTED AND AS YOU SAID,
20 IT'S NOT JUST CHRISTIANS. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE -- ONE
21 THING THAT I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO ON ALL
22 THESE ISSUES IS TO LEAD BY EXAMPLE. THAT'S WHY I THINK
23 IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE HERE
24 IN THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR US
25 WHEN WE ARE CRITICIZING OTHER COUNTRIES ABOUT RULE OF LAW
4
1 TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ABIDING BY RULE OF LAW AND HABEAS
2 CORPUS AND WE'RE NOT ENGAGING IN TORTURE BECAUSE THAT
3 GIVES US A MORE OR LESS STANDARD TO TALK ABOUT THESE OTHER
4 ISSUES.
5 Q OKAY. ANOTHER ISSUE, THE THIRD LARGEST AND THE
6 FASTEST GROWING CRIMINAL INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD IS HUMAN
7 TRAFFICKING. $32 BILLION A YEAR, LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW
8 THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 27 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN SLAVERY
9 RIGHT NOW, MANY THEM IN SEX TRAFFIC, BUT IN OTHERS. HOW
10 DO WE SPEAK OUT AND HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT?
11 A THIS HAS TO BE A TOP PRIORITY. THIS IS AN AREA
12 WHERE WE'VE ALREADY BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE.
13 WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS TO CREATE BETTER, MORE EFFECTIVE
14 TOOLS FOR PROSECUTING THOSE WHO ARE ENGAGING IN HUMAN
15 TRAFFICKING AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT WITHIN OUR COUNTRY.
16 SADLY, THERE ARE THOUSANDS WHO ARE TRAPPED IN VARIOUS
17 FORMS OF ENSLAVEMENT HERE IN OUR COUNTRY, OFTENTIMES YOUNG
18 WOMEN WHO ARE CAUGHT UP IN PROSTITUTION. SO WE'VE GOT TO
19 GIVE PROSECUTERS THE TOOLS TO CRACK DOWN ON THESE HUMAN
20 TRAFFICKING NETWORKS. INTERNATIONALLY WE'VE GOT TO SPEAK
21 OUT AND WE'VE GOT TO FORGE ALLIANCES WITH OTHER COUNTRIES
22 TO SHARE INTELLIGENCE TO ROLL UP THE FINANCING NETWORKS
23 THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THEM. IT IS A DEBASEMENT OF OUR
24 COMMON HUMANITY WHENEVER WE SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT TAKING
25 PLACE.
5
1 Q OKAY. IN A MINUTE, IN ONE MINUTE BECAUSE I KNOW
2 YOU COULD TAKE THE ENTIRE HOUR ON THIS, TELL ME IN A
3 MINUTE WHY YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT?
4 A YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHAT MY MOTHER USED TO TELL
5 ME. I WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY A WHILE BACK AND I SAID THE
6 ONE TIME THAT SHE'D GET REALLY ANGRY WITH ME IS IF SHE
7 EVER THOUGHT THAT I WAS BEING MEAN TO SOMEBODY OR UNFAIR
8 TO SOMEBODY. SHE SAID, IMAGINE STANDING IN THEIR SHOES,
9 IMAGINE LOOKING THROUGH THEIR EYES, THAT BASIC IDEA OF
10 EMPATHY. AND THAT I THINK IS WHAT'S MADE AMERICA SPECIAL
11 IS THAT NOTION, THAT EVERYBODY'S GOT A SHOT. IF WE SEE
12 SOMEBODY DOWN AND OUT, IF WE SEE A KID WHO'S -- WHO CAN'T
13 AFFORD COLLEGE THAT WE CARE FOR THEM TOO. AND I WANT TO
14 BE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THAT'S THE AMERICA I BELIEVE IN AND I
15 FEEL LIKE THAT AMERICAN DREAM IS SLIPPING AWAY I THINK WE
16 ARE AT A CRITICAL JUNCTURE ECONOMICALLY, I THINK WE ARE AT
17 A CRITICAL JUNCTURE INTERNATIONALLY. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE
18 SOME BIG DECISIONS NOT JUST FOR US BUT FOR THE NEXT
19 GENERATION AND WE KEEP ON PUTTING IT OFF AND UNFORTUNATELY
20 OUR POLITICS IS SO BROKEN AND WASHINGTON IS SO BROKEN THAT
21 WE CAN'T SEEM TO BRING TOGETHER PEOPLE OF GOODWILL TO
22 SOLVE THESE COMMON PROBLEMS. I THINK I HAVE THE ABILITY
23 TO BUILD BRIDGES ACROSS PARTISAN LINES, RACIAL, REGIONAL
24 LINES TO GET PEOPLE TO WORK ON SOME COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS
25 TO CRITICAL ISSUES AND I HOPE THAT I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
6
1 TO DO THAT.
2 Q ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO SKIP OVER A COUPLE OF
3 THESE OTHER IMPORTANT ONES AND I'LL JUST ASK YOU WHAT DO
4 YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE ME ASKING YOU THESE
5 QUESTIONS? THAT WILL BE THE LAST ONE.
6 A THESE ARE THE KINDS OF FORUMS WE NEED WHERE WE
7 HAVE A CONVERSATION AND I THINK BASED ON -- BASED ON THESE
8 CONVERSATIONS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN MAKE A GOOD
9 JUDGEMENT. ONE OF THE THINGS IF YOU ARE A PERSON OF FAITH
10 LIKE ME, I BELIEVE THAT THINGS WILL WORK OUT AND WE WILL
11 GET THE PRESIDENT THAT WE NEED. WHAT YOU WANT THOUGH IS
12 JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE GOOD INFORMATION, THAT
13 THEY'RE NOT JUST CONSUMING NEGATIVE ADS OR THE KIND OF
14 NASTY TIT FOR A TAT THAT HAS BECOME SO COMMON IN POLITICS.
15 I WANT PEOPLE IT TO KNOW ME WELL. I'M SURE JOHN MCCAIN
16 FEELS THE SAME WAY. IF WE ARE BOTH KNOWN AND PEOPLE KNOW
17 WHERE WE STAND ON ISSUES I TRUST IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
18 THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION AND WE ARE GOING TO
19 BE ABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE FACE.
20 Q WE HAVE 30 SECONDS. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THE
21 AMERICAN PUBLIC IF YOU KNEW THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY
22 REPERCUSSIONS?
23
24 A YOU KNOW WHAT, I WOULD TELL THEM IS THAT SOLVING
25 BIG PROBLEMS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE ENERGY IS NOT GOING TO BE
7
1 EASY AND EVERYBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET INVOLVED AND WE
2 ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ALL THINK ABOUT HOW ARE WE USING
3 ENERGY MORE EFFICIENTLY AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A PRICE
4 TO PAY IN TRANSITIONING TO A MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT ECONOMY
5 AND DEALING WITH ISSUES LIKE CLIMB AUNT CHANGE. IF WE
6 PRETEND LIKE EVERYTHING IS FREE AND THERE IS NO SACRIFICE
7 INVOLVED THEN WE ARE BETRAYING THE TRADITION OF AMERICA.
8 I THINK ABOUT MY GRAND PARENT'S GENERATION COMING OUT OF A
9 DEPRESSION, FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO, YOU KNOW THEY'VE
10 CONFRONTED SOME CHALLENGES WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE. IF THEY
11 WERE WILLING TO MAKE SACRIFICCES ON OUR BEHALF, WE SHOULD
12 BE ABLE TOLD MAKE SOME SACRIFICES ON BEHALF OF THE NEXT
13 GENERATION.
14 Q SENATOR THANK YOU. NOW, WOULD YOU STAND -- WOULD
15 YOU STAND AND THANK SENATOR BARACK OBAMA. THANK YOU.
16 THANK YOU AND WHILE YOU ARE STILL STANDING, WOULD YOU
17 WELCOME AT THE SAME TIME SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN WOULD YOU
18 WELCOME HIM AS HE COMES OUT HERE. THANK YOU GUYS. THANK
19 YOU GUYS THANK YOU SO MUCH
20
21
22
23
24
25
8
THE COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES
(COMPUTER NOTES, ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPTS, OR DISKS)
CANNOT BE USED, CITED, OR CERTIFIED
AS THE OFFICIAL RECORD OR CERTIFIED
TRANSCRIPT OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY.
THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES AND THE
CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
ONLY THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF
THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER CAN BE
THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY
BEING TAKEN.
7 Q. WELCOME BACK TO THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM ON
8 THE PRESIDENCY AND WELCOME SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN.
9 NOW MY FIRST QUESTION WAS THE CONE OF SILENCE
10 COMFORTABLE THAT YOU WERE IN JUST NOW?
11 A. I WAS TRYING TO HEAR THROUGH THE WALL.
12 Q. OKAY. THIS FIRST SET OF QUESTIONS DEALS WITH
13 LEADERSHIP AND THE PERSONAL LIFE OF LEADERSHIP. FIRST
14 QUESTION IS WHO WERE THE THREE WISEST PEOPLE THAT YOU
15 KNOW THAT YOU WOULD RELY ON HEAVILY IN AN
16 ADMINISTRATION.
17 A. FIRST ONE I THINK WOULD BE GENERAL DAVID
18 PATREAS ONE OF GREAT MILITARY LEADERS IN AMERICA
19 HISTORY WHO TOOK US FROM DEFEAT TO VICTORY IN IRAQ.
20 ONE OF THE GREAT LEADERS.
21 FOURTH OF JULY A YEAR AGO SENATOR LINDSEY
22 GRAHAM AND I WERE YEAR AGO WERE IN BAGDAD. 688 BRAVE
23 AMERICANS WHOSE ENLISTMENT HAD EXPIRED SWORE AN OATH OF
24 REENLISTMENT TO STAY AND FIGHT FOR FREEDOM. ONLY
25 SOMEONE LIKE DAVID PATREAS COULD MOTIVATE SOMEBODY LIKE
1 THAT.
2 I THINK JOHN LEWIS. JOHN LEWIS WAS AT THE
3 EDMUND PETTUS BRIDGE. HAD HIS SKULL FRACTURED.
4 CONTINUES TO SERVE. CONTINUES TO HAVE THE MOST
5 OPTIMISTIC OUTLOOK ABOUT AMERICA. HE CAN TEACH US ALL
6 A LOT ABOUT THE MEANINGS OF COURAGE AND COMMITMENT TO
7 CAUSES GREATER THAN OURSELF.
8 MEG WHITMAN. MEG WHITMAN THE CEO OF E-BAY,
9 MEG WHITMAN, 12 YEARS AGO THERE WERE FIVE EMPLOYEES.
10 TODAY THEY ARE ONE AND A HALF MILLION PEOPLE THAT MAKE
11 A LIVING OFF E-MAIL IN AMERICA IN WORLD. ONE OF THESE
12 GREAT AMERICAN SUCCESS STORIES AND IN THESE ECONOMIC
13 CHALLENGING TIMES WE NEED TO CALL ON THE WISDOM AND
14 KNOWLEDGE, BACKGROUND OF PEOPLE LIKE MEG WHITMAN WHO
15 HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE SUCH A GREAT AMERICA SUCCESS
16 STORY PART OF THE WORLD'S FOLKLORE.
17 Q. OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU THIS. THIS IS A
18 CHARACTER QUESTION.
19 A. I HOPE THEY GET EASIER.
20 Q. THIS ONE ISN'T ANY EASIER. WE HAD A LOT OF
21 LEADERS BECAUSE OF THEIR WEAKNESSES, CHARACTER FLAWS,
22 STUMBLED BECOME INEFFECTIVE ARE NOT EVEN SERVING
23 ANYMORE. SERVING OUR COUNTRY. WHAT'S BEEN YOUR
24 GREATEST MORAL FAILURE AND WHAT HAS BEEN THE -- WHAT DO
25 YOU THINK IS THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE OF AMERICA?
1 A. THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER?
2 Q. NO THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER.
3 A. MY GREATEST MORAL FAILING, AND I HAVE BEEN A
4 VERY IMPERFECT PERSON IS THE FAILURE OF MY FIRST
5 MARRIAGE. IT'S MY GREATEST MORAL FAILURE.
6 I THINK AMERICA'S GREATEST MORAL FAILURE HAS
7 BEEN THROUGHOUT OUR EXISTENCE, PERHAPS WE HAVE NOT
8 DEVOTED OURSELVES TO CAUSES GREATER THAN OUR SELF
9 INTEREST ALTHOUGH WE'VE BEEN AT THE BEST AT IT OF
10 ANYBODY IN THE WORLD.
11 I THINKS AFTER 9/11 MY FRIENDS INSTEAD OF
12 TELLING PEOPLE TO GO SHOPPING OR TAKE A TRIP WE SHOULD
13 HAVE TOLD AMERICANS TO JOIN THE PIECE CORP, AMERICORP,
14 MILITARY. EXPAND OUR VOLUNTEER, EXPAND WHAT YOU ARE
15 DOING. EXPAND THE CREATE MISSIONS THAT YOU ARE DOING
16 THAT YOU ARE CARRYING OUT NOT ONLY HERE IN AMERICA BUT
17 THROUGHOUT THE WORLD ESPECIALLY IN RHUWANDA AND I HOPE
18 WE HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE LATER ON.
19 YOU KNOW A LITTLE PANDERING HERE. THE FIRST WORDS OF
20 YOUR VERY SUCCESSFUL BOOK IS THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
21 AND YOU KNOW THAT REALLY ALSO MEANS, SERVE A CAUSE
22 GREATER THAN YOURSELF INTEREST.
23 JOHN, YOU KNOW THAT A LOT OF GOOD LEGISLATION
24 DIES BECAUSE OF PARTISAN POLITICS AND PARTY LOYALTY
25 REALLY GETS PEOPLE FROM PUTTING AMERICA'S BEST FIRST.
1 COULD YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU LED
2 AGAINST YOUR PARTY'S INTEREST -- OH THIS IS HARD AND
3 REALLY MAYBE AGAINST YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST FOR THE
4 GOOD OF AMERICA.
5 YOU KNOW BY A STRANGE COINCIDENCE I WAS NOT
6 ELECTED MISS CONGENIALITY IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE
7 THIS YEAR. I DON'T KNOW WHY. I DON'T KNOW WHY. I
8 DON'T KNOW WHY.
9 CLIMATE CHANGE, OUT OF CONTROL SPENDING,
10 TORTURE. THE LIST GOES ON ON A LARGE NUMBER OF ISSUES
11 THAT I'VE PUT MY COUNTRY FIRST AND I'VE REACHED ACROSS
12 THE AISLE. BUT I PROBABLY HAVE TO SAY THAT ONE OF THE
13 TIMES THAT PROBABLY WAS ONE OF THE MOST TRYING WAS WHEN
14 I WAS FIRST A MEMBER OF CONGRESS AND I AM A NEW MEMBER
15 OF THE HOUSE OF LEGISLATION AND I WAS DEDICATED TO
16 PRESIDENT REAGAN WHO I STILL THINK IS ONE OF THE
17 GREATEST PRESIDENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY WHO WON THE
18 COLD WAR WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT IN THE WORDS OF MARGARET
19 THATCHER. HE WANTED TO SEND TROOPS TO BERUIT FOR A
20 PEACEKEEPING MISSION. MY KNOWLEDGE AND MY BACKGROUND
21 TOLD ME THAT A FEW HUNDRED MARINES IN A SITUATION LIKE
22 THAT COULD NOT SUCCESSFULLY CARRY OUT ANY KIND OF PEACE
23 KEEPING MISSION AND I THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING INTO
24 HARMS WAY. TRAGICALLY AS MANY OF YOU RECALL THERE WAS
25 A BOMBING IN THE MARINE BARRACKS AND WELL OVER A
1 HUNDRED BRAVE MARINES GAVE THEIR LIVES BUT IT WAS TOUGH
2 THAT VOTE, BECAUSE I WENT AGAINST THE PRESIDENT I
3 BELIEVE IN AND THE PARTY THAT BELIEVED THAT MAYBE I WAS
4 DISLOYAL VERY EARLY IN MY POLITICAL CAREER.
5 Q. THERE'S A VERSE IN THE BIBLE THAT SAYS
6 INTELLIGENT PEOPLE LOOK FOR IDEAS IN FACT THEY SEARCH
7 FOR THEM.
8 WHAT'S THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POSITION THAT
9 YOU'VE HELD 10 YEARS AGO THAT YOU NO LONGER HOLD TODAY?
10 I THINK THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT LEADERS
11 ARE NOT STUBBORN. THEY DO CHANGE THEIR MIND WITH
12 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. SO GIVE ME A GOOD EXAMPLE OF
13 SOMETHING THAT WAS TEN YEARS AGO YOU SAID THAT'S THE
14 WAY I FEEL BIT AND NOW 10 YEARS LATER THAT'S DIFFERENT.
15 THAT'S NOT FLIP FLOPPING IT IS JUST SOMETIMES GROWING
16 IN WISDOM.
17 A. OFFSHORE DRILLING. WE'VE GOT TO DRILL NOW AND
18 WE'VE GOT TO DRILL HERE AND WE'VE GOT TO BECOME
19 INDEPENDENT ON FOREIGN OIL. I KNOW THAT THERE'S SOME
20 HERE IN CALIFORNIA THAT DISAGREE, THAT DISAGREE WITH
21 THAT POSITION. COULD I ALSO MENTION VERY SERIOUSLY
22 ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF MY FRIENDS YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS A
23 NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE MUCH WE'RE SENDING $700
24 BILLIONS DOLLARS A YEAR TO COUNTRIES THAT DON'T LIKE US
25 VERY MUCH, THAT SOME OF THAT MONEY IS ENDED UP IN THE
1 HANDS OF TERRORISTS ORGANIZATIONS MUCH WE CANNOT ALLOW
2 THIS GREATEST TRANSFER OF WEALTH IN HISTORY AND OUR
3 NATIONAL SECURITY TO CONTINUE TO BE THREATENED. AND
4 RICK I KNOW WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ISSUES TO COVER BUT LET
5 ME JUST SAY IT AT THE TOWN HALL MEETINGS THAT I HAVE
6 EVERY DAY, THAT THE ISSUE ON PEOPLE'S MIND IS ENERGY.
7 SO I THINK IF I COULD JUST TAKE ONE 30 SECONDS.
8 ONE WE'VE GOT TO DO EVERYTHING, WE'VE GOT TO
9 DO WIND, TIDE, SOLAR, NATURAL GAS, HYDROGEN CARS,
10 HYBRID CARS, ELECTRIC CARS AND WE HAVE TO HAVE NUCLEAR
11 POWER IN ORDER TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND
12 SAVE ON OUR ENERGY COSTS. BY THE WAY IN CASE YOU
13 HADN'T NOTICED IT THE FRENCH 80 PERCENT, WE LOVE TO
14 IMMITATE THE FRENCH BUT 80 PERCENT OF THEIR ELECTRICITY
15 IS GENERATED BY NUCLEAR POWER IF THEY CAN DO IT AND RE
16 PROCESS WE CAN DO IT MY FRIENDS. AND BY THE WAY IF YOU
17 HADN'T NOTICE WE NOW HAVE A PRO AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF
18 FRANCE WHICH PROVES IF YOU LIVE LONG ENOUGH ANYTHING
19 CAN HAPPEN IN AMERICA.
20 Q. I HAD THAT QUESTION LATER ON BUT WE DON'T HAVE
21 TO ASK IT. WHAT'S THE MOST GUT WRENCHING DECISION
22 YOU'VE EVER HAD TO MAKE AND WHAT WAS THE PROCESS THAT
23 YOU USED TO MAKE IT?
24 A. IT WAS LONG AGO AND FAR AWAY IN A PRISON CAMP
25 IN NORTH VIETNAM. MY FATHER WAS A HIGH RANKING
1 ADMIRAL. THE VIETNAMESE CAME AND SAID THAT I COULD
2 LEAVE PRISON EARLY. AND WE HAD A CODE OF CONDUCT THAT
3 SAID YOU ONLY LEAVE BY ORDER OF CAPTURE. I ALSO HAD A
4 DEAR AND BELOVED FRIEND WHO WAS FROM CALIFORNIA BY THE
5 NAME ED ALVAREZ WHO HAD BEEN SHOT DOWN AND CAPTURED A
6 COUPLE YEARS BEFORE ME BUT I WASN'T IN GOOD PHYSICAL
7 SHAPE. IN FACT I WAS IN RATHER BAD PHYSICAL SHAPE.
8 SO I SAID NO. NOW, IN IT OF FULL DISCLOSURE,
9 I'M VERY HAPPY I DIDN'T KNOW THE WAR WAS GOING TO LAST
10 FOR ANOTHER THREE YEARS OR SO. BUT I SAID NO AND I'LL
11 NEVER FORGET SITTING IN MY LAST ANSWER AND THE HIGH
12 RANKING OFFICER WHO OFFERED IT SLAMMED THE DOOR AND THE
13 INTERROGATOR SAID GO BACK TO YOUR CELL IT'S GOING TO BE
14 VERY TOUGH ON YOU NOW. AND IT WAS. BUT NOT ONLY THE
15 TOUGHEST DECISION I EVER MADE BUT I'M MOST HAPPY ABOUT
16 THAT DECISION THAN ANY DECISION I'VE EVER MADE IN MY
17 LIFE. I DID FINALLY SAY IT TOOK A LOT OF PRAYER, IT
18 TOOK A LOT OF PRAYER.
19 Q. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK IN JOHN MCCAIN.
THE COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES
3 (COMPUTER NOTES, ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPTS, OR DISKS)
4 CANNOT BE USED, CITED, OR CERTIFIED
5 AS THE OFFICIAL RECORD OR CERTIFIED
6 TRANSCRIPT OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY.
7 THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
8 COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES AND THE
9 CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
10 ONLY THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF
11 THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER CAN BE
12 THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY
13 BEING TAKEN.
2 Rick: WELCOME BACK. WELCOME BACK. AND I'M HERE WITH
3 SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN. NOW JOHN, IN THIS NEXT SECTION WE'RE
4 GOING TO TALK ABOUT WORLDVIEW. AND I ACTUALLY INVITED 40
5 THOUSAND PEOPLE OF MY PERSONAL FRIENDS TO SEND ME THEIR
6 QUESTIONS AND THESE ARE HEARTLAND QUESTIONS THAT CAME IN
7 FROM ALL OVER AMERICA. NO MATTER HOW YOU ANSWER THEM,
8 SOMEBODY'S NOT GOING TO LIKE IT BECAUSE WE HAVE MANY WORLD
9 VIEWS, OBVIOUSLY, IN AMERICA. BUT LET'S TALK THROUGH
10 THESE MINE FIELDS TOGETHER. FIRST, YOU'VE MADE NO DOUBT
11 ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN. YOU PUBLICLY
12 SAY YOU ARE A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO
13 YOU AND HOW DOES FAITH WORK OUT IN YOUR LIFE ON A DAILY
14 BASIS? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU?
15 A MEANS I'M SAVED AND FOREGIVEN AND WE'RE TALKING
16 ABOUT THE WORLD. OUR FAITH ENCOMPASSES NOT JUST THE
17 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BUT THE WORLD. CAN I TELL YOU
18 ANOTHER STORY REAL QUICK?
19 Q SURE.
20 A VIETNAMESE KEPT US IN PRISON IN CONDITIONS OF
21 SOLITAIRY CONFINEMENT FOR TWO OR THREE TO A CELL. THEY
22 DID THAT BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BREAK DOWN OUR
23 RESISTANCE. ONE OF THE TECHNIQUES THAT THEY USED TO GET
24 INFORMATION WAS TO TAKE ROPES AND TIE THEM AROUND YOUR
25 BICEPS, PULL YOUR BICEPS BEHIND YOU, LOOP THE ROPE AROUND
1 YOUR HEAD, PULL YOUR HEAD DOWN BETWEEN YOUR KNEES AND
2 LEAVE YOU IN THAT POSITION. YOU CAN MANAGE, IT'S VERY
3 UNCOMFORTABLE. ONE NIGHT I WAS BEING PUNISHED IN THAT
4 FASHION. ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DOOR OF THE CELL OPENED, THE
5 GUARD CAME IN, A GUY WHO WAS JUST WHAT WE CALL A GUN
6 GUARD. HE JUST WALKED AROUND THE CAMP WITH A GUN ON HIS
7 SHOULDER. HE WENT LIKE THIS AND THEN HE LOOSENED THE
8 ROPES. HE CAME BACK ABOUT FOUR HOURS LATER, HE TIGHTENED
9 THEM UP AGAIN AND LEFT. THE FOLLOWING CHRISTMAS, BECAUSE
10 IT WAS CHRISTMAS DAY, WE WERE ALLOWED TO STAND OUTSIDE OF
11 OUR CELL FOR A FEW MINUTES, AND THOSE DAYS WE WERE NOT
12 ALLOWED TO SEE OR COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER ALTHOUGH WE
13 CERTAINLY DID. AND I WAS STANDING OUTSIDE FOR MY FEW
14 MINUTES, OUTSIDE MY CELL. HE CAME WALKING UP. HE STOOD
15 THERE FOR A MINUTE AND WITH HIS HANDLE ON THE DIRT IN THE
16 COURTYARD HE DREW A CROSS AND HE STOOD THERE AND A MINUTE
17 LATER, HE RUBBED IT OUT AND WALKED AWAY. FOR A MINUTE
18 THERE, THERE WAS JUST TWO CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING TOGETHER.
19 I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT MOMENT SO EVERY DAY --
20 Q ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO INTO THE TOUGH ONES. THAT
21 WAS JUST A GIMMIE. LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. I, AS A
22 PASTOR, HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL THE TIME, EVERY
23 DIFFERENT ANGLE, EVERY DIFFERENT PAIN, ALL THE DECISIONS
24 AND ALL OF THAT. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V WADE.
25 SOME PEOPLE WHO -- PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT LIFE BEGINS AT
1 CONCEPTION WOULD SAY THAT'S A HOLOCAUST FOR MANY PEOPLE.
2 AT WHAT POINT IS A BABY ENTITLED TO HUMAN RIGHTS?
3 A AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. I HAVE A 25-YEAR
4 PRO LIFE RECORD IN THE CONGRESS, IN THE SENATE. AND AS
5 PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I WILL BE A PRO LIFE
6 PRESIDENT AND THIS PRESIDENCY WILL HAVE PRO LIFE POLICIES.
7 THAT'S MY COMMITMENT, THAT'S MY COMMITMENT TO YOU.
8 Q OKAY. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO LONGER ON THAT ONE.
9 DEFINE MARRIAGE.
10 A UNION -- A UNION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, BETWEEN
11 ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT'S MY DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE.
12 ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPREME
13 COURT JUSTICES.
14 Q WE'LL GET TO THAT.
15 A ALL RIGHT. OKAY.
16 Q YOU GOT ALL MY QUESTIONS, GOOD.
17 A WHEN WE SPEAK OF THE ISSUES OF THE RIGHTS OF THE
18 UNBORN, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT JUDGES, BUT ANYWAY GO AHEAD.
19 Q LET ME JUST ASK YOU A QUESTION RELATED TO THAT.
20 WE GOT A BILL RIGHT HERE IN CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION EIGHT
21 THAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE THE COURT OVERTURNED THIS
22 DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. WAS THIS SUPREME COURT OF
23 CALIFORNIA WRONG?
24 A I BELIEVE THEY WERE WRONG AND I STRONGLY SUPPORT
25 PRESERVING UNIQUE STATUS OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
1 AND I'M A FEDERALIST. I BELIEVE IN THAT STATE SHOULD MAKE
2 THOSE DECISIONS. IN MY STATE, I HOPE WE WILL MAKE THAT
3 DECISION AND OTHER STATES. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE
4 UNIQUES STATUS OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN AND THAT
5 MEANS -- THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE CAN'T ENTER INTO
6 LEGAL AGREEMENTS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T HAVE
7 THE RIGHTS OF ALL CITIZENS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT. I AM
8 SAYING THAT WE SHOULD PRESERVE THE UNIQUE STATUS OF
9 MARRIAGE BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN AND IF A FEDERAL
10 COURT -- IF A FEDERAL COURT DECIDED THAT MY STATE OF
11 ARIZONA HAD TO OBSERVE WHAT THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS
12 DECIDED, THEN I WOULD FAVOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.
13 UNTIL THEN, I BELIEVE THE STATE SHOULD MAKE THE DECISIONS
14 WITHIN THEIR OWN STATES.
15 Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ANOTHER ISSUE, STEM CELLS.
16 NOW WE'VE HAD THIS SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH OF CREATING
17 PLURY POTENT STEM CELLS THROUGH ADULT STEM CELLS SO WOULD
18 YOU FAVOR OR OPPOSE THE FEDERAL FUNDING OF EMBRYONIC STEM
19 CELL RESEARCH SINCE WE HAVE THIS OTHER BREAKTHROUGH?
20 A FOR THOSE OF US IN THE PRO LIFE COMMUNITY, THIS
21 HAS BEEN A GREAT STRUGGLE AND A TERRIBLE DILEMMA BECAUSE
22 WE'RE ALSO TAUGHT OTHER OBLIGATIONS THAT WE HAVE AS WELL.
23 I'VE COME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF STEM CELL RESEARCH, BUT I AM
24 WILDLY OPTIMISTIC THAT SKIN CELL RESEARCH WHICH IS COMING
25 MORE AND MORE INTO FOCUS AND PRACTICABILITY WILL MAKE THIS
1 DEBATE AN ECONOMIC ONE.
2 Q HOW ABOUT THE ISSUE OF EVIL? I ASKED THIS OF
3 YOUR RIVAL IN THE PREVIOUS THING. DOES EVIL EXIST AND IF
4 SO, SHOULD WE IGNORE IT, NEGOTIATE WITH IT, CONTAIN IT OR
5 DEFEAT IT?
6 A DEFEAT IT. COUPLE POINTS, ONE, IF I'M PRESIDENT
7 OF THE UNITED STATES, MY FRIENDS, IF I HAVE TO FOLLOW HIM
8 TO THE GATES OF HELL, I WILL GET OSAMA BIN LADEN AND BRING
9 HIM TO JUSTICE. I WILL DO THAT AND I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.
10 I WILL GET THAT DONE. NO ONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TAKE
11 THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN -- INNOCENT AMERICAN LIVES. OF
12 COURSE EVIL MUST BE DEFEATED. MY FRIENDS, WE ARE FACING
13 THE TRANSCENDENT CHALLENGE OF THE 21-CENTURY, RADICAL
14 ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS. NOT LONG AGO IN BAGHDAD, AL-QAEDA
15 TOOK TWO YOUNG WOMEN WHO WERE MENTALLY DISABLED AND PUT
16 SUICIDE VESTS ON THEM, SENT THEM INTO A MARKETPLACE AND BY
17 REMOTE CONTROL, DETINATED THOSE SUICIDE VESTS. IF THAT
18 ISN'T EVIL, YOU HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT IS AND WE'RE GOING TO
19 DEFEAT THIS EVIL AND THE CENTRAL BATTLE GROUND ACCORDING
20 TO DAVID PETRAEUS AND OSAMA BIN LADEN IS THE BATTLES -- IS
21 BAGHDAD, MOZIL AND IRAQ AND WE ARE WINNING AND WE ARE
22 SUCCEEDING AND OUR TROOPS WILL COME HOME WITH HONOR AND
23 VICTORY AND NOT IN DEFEAT AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. WE
24 HAVE -- AND WE FACE THIS THREAT THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
25 IT'S NOT JUST IN IRAQ. IT'S NOT JUST IN AFGHANISTAN. OUR
1 INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE TELL US AL-QAEDA CONTINUES TO TRY TO
2 ESTABLISH CELLS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. MY
3 FRIENDS, WE MUST FACE THIS CHALLENGE. WE CAN FACE THIS
4 CHALLENGE AND WE MUST TOTALLY DEFEAT IT AND WE'RE IN A
5 LONG STRUGGLE, BUT WHEN I'M AROUND THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN
6 WHO ARE SERVING THIS NATION IN UNIFORM, I HAVE NO DOUBT,
7 NONE.
8 Q ALL RIGHT. THESE NEXT QUESTIONS HAVE TO DO WITH
9 DOMESTIC ISSUES. I BELIEVE THAT LEADERSHIP IS STEWARDSHIP
10 NOT OWNERSHIP AND FOR A FEW YEARS, YOU ARE ASKING US TO
11 PLACE OUR STEWARDSHIP, OUR FREEDOM AND OUR SECURITY AND
12 ECONOMY, AND ENVIRONMENT, EVERYTHING, IN YOUR HANDS SO
13 HERE I HAVE ABOUT FIVE HUNDRED QUESTIONS IN THIS CATEGORY.
14 THE FIRST ONE IS ON THE COURTS, WHICH EXISTING SUPREME
15 COURT JUSTICES WOULD YOU NOT HAVE NOMINATED?
16 A WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, JUSTICE GINSBURG, JUSTICE
17 BREYER, JUSTICE SOUTER ER AND JUSTICE STEVENS.
18 Q WHY? TELL ME WHY?
19 A WELL, I THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
20 STATES HAS INCREDIBLE RESPONSIBILITY IN NOMINATING PEOPLE
21 TO THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. THEY ARE LIFETIME
22 POSITIONS AS WELL AS THE FEDERAL BENCH. THERE WILL BE TWO
23 MAYBE THREE VACANCIES. THIS NOMINATION SHOULD BE BASED ON
24 THE CRITERIA OF PROVEN RECORD OF STRICTLY ADHERING TO THE
25 CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND NOT
1 LEGISLATING FROM THE BENCH. SOME OF THE WORST DAMAGE HAS
2 BEEN DONE BY LEGISLATING FROM THE BENCH. AND BY THE WAY,
3 JUSTICES ALITO AND ROBERTS ARE TWO OF MY MOST RECENT
4 FAVORITES, BY THE WAY. THEY REALLY ARE. THEY ARE VERY
5 FINE AND I'M PROUD OF PRESIDENT BUSH FOR NOMINATING THEM.
6 Q ALL RIGHT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ROLE OF FAITH
7 BASED ORGANIZATIONS. THERE WAS A RECENT POLL THAT CAME
8 OUT, SAID OVER 70 PERCENT OF AMERICANS BELIEVE THAT FAITH
9 BASED ORGANIZATIONS DO A BETTER JOB AT COMMUNITY
10 SERVICES --
11 A BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE RIGHT.
12 Q -- THAN THE GOVERNMENT.
13 Q YOU KNOW, ADDICTIONS, HOMELESSNESS, POVERTY ALL
14 OF THESE -- PRISONER REHAB, THINGS LIKE THAT. NOW THE
15 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964 ALLOWS RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS,
16 NOT JUST CHURCHES, BUT FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS, TO KEEP
17 AND HIRE THE PEOPLE THAT THEY BELIEVE SHARE COMMON BELIEFS
18 WITH.
19 A YES.
20 Q WOULD YOU INSIST THAT FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS
21 FORFEIT THAT RIGHT TO ACCESS FEDERAL FUNDS?
22 A ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND IF YOU DO, IT WOULD MEAN A
23 SEVERE CRIPPLING OF FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS AND THEIR
24 ABILITIES TO DO THE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE DONE SO
25 SUCCESSFULLY. LIFE IS FULL OF ANECDOTES. CAN -- AND I'M
1 SORRY TO TELL YOU SO MANY ANECDOTES, BUT I WENT TO
2 NEW ORLEANS AFTER KATRINA, THE RESURRECTION BAPTIST CHURCH
3 WAS DOING TREMENDOUS WORK WITH THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS,
4 I'M SURE PROBABLY FROM HERE AT SADDLEBACK, COORDINATING
5 THE EFFORTS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS, INCLUDING MY OWN
6 CHURCH, THE NORTH PHOENIX BAPTIST CHURCH, WHO CAME FROM
7 ALL OVER AMERICA. AND VARIOUS AUTHORITIES OFF THE RECORD
8 TOLD ME OFF THE RECORD THAT THEY WERE DOING SO MUCH MORE
9 GOOD THAN THE GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS. THEY SAID IT WAS
10 INCREDIBLE AND NEW ORLEANS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ON THE PATH
11 -- AND THEY'VE GOT A LONG WAY TO GO -- ON THE PATH TO
12 RECOVERY IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR THE FAITH BASED
13 ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE STILL OPERATING IN NEW ORLEANS MUCH
14 TO THEIR CREDIT. THANK GOD.
15 Q FIRST AND LAST OUT.
16 A YES.
17 Q ALL RIGHT. LET'S TALK ABOUT EDUCATION. AMERICA
18 RANKS 19TH IN HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATIONS, BUT WE'RE FIRST IN
19 INCARCERATION. EVERYBODY SAYS THEY WANT MORE
20 ACCOUNTABILITY IN SCHOOLS?
21 A UH-HUH.
22 Q ABOUT 80 PERCENT OF AMERICA SAYS THEY SUPPORT
23 MERIT PAY FOR THE BEST TEACHERS. NOW, I DON'T WANT TO
24 HEAR YOUR STUMP SPEECH ON EDUCATION?
25 A YES. YES. AND FIND BAD TEACHERS ANOTHER LINE OF
1 WORK.
2 Q YOU KNOW --
3 A CAN I --
4 Q YOU ARE ANSWERING SO QUICKLY.
5 A CAN I --
6 Q YOU WANT TO PLAY A GAME OF POKER?
7 A CAN I JUST SAY CHOICE AND COMPETITION, -- CHOICE
8 AND COMPETITION, HOME SCHOOLING, CHARTER SCHOOL VOUCHERS,
9 ALL THE CHOICE COMPETITION, I WANT -- LOOK, I WANT EVERY
10 AMERICAN FAMILY TO HAVE THE SAME CHOICE THAT CINDY AND I
11 MADE AND SENATOR OBAMA AND MRS. OBAMA MADE AS WELL AND
12 THAT WAS WE WANTED TO SEND OUR CHILDREN TO THE SCHOOL OF
13 OUR CHOICE. AND CHARTER SCHOOLS WORK, MY FRIENDS, HOME
14 SCHOOLING WORKS, VOUCHERS IN OUR NATION'S CAPITAL WORKS.
15 WE'VE GOT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON DC THAT ARE
16 APPLYING FOR A VOUCHER SYSTEM. NEW YORK CITY IS
17 REFORMING. I GO BACK TO NEW ORLEANS. THEY WERE -- AS WE
18 KNOW, THE TRAGEDY DEVASTATED THEM. THEY NOW HAVE OVER 30
19 CHARTER SCHOOLS IN THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS AND GUESS WHAT?
20 IT'S ALL COMING UP. IT'S ALL COMING UP. IT'S A SIMPLE
21 PRINCIPLE, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE DEDICATED MEN AND WOMEN,
22 PARTICULARLY IN THE TEACHING PROFESSION, TO MAKE IT
23 HAPPEN. AND BY THE WAY, HERE IN -- I WON'T GO ANY
24 FURTHER, BUT THE POINT IS IT'S ALL BASED AND IT'S BEING
25 PROVEN THAT CHOICE IN COMPETITION FOR EVERY AMERICAN
1 FAMILY AND IT IS THE CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE OF THE 21ST
2 CENTURY BECAUSE EVERY CITIZENS' CHILD NOW HAS AN
3 OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO SCHOOL. BUT WHAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITY
4 IS IT IF YOU SEND THEM TO A FAILING SCHOOL? THAT'S WHY WE
5 GOT TO GIVE EVERYBODY THE SAME OPPORTUNITY AND CHOICE.
6 Q OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE ON.
7 A SORRY YOU MENTIONED THAT MY ANSWERS ARE SHORT,
8 AREN'T YOU?
9 Q NO. NO. ACTUALLY, THIS IS GREAT BECAUSE I MAY
10 ACTUALLY GET TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF EXTRA QUESTIONS WHICH
11 IS GOOD. THEY ARE THE LIGHTENING BONUS ROUND. ON TAXES,
12 DEFINE RICH. EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TAXING THE
13 RICH AND -- BUT NOT THE POOR, THE MIDDLE CLASS. AT WHAT
14 POINT -- GIVE ME A NUMBER, GIVE ME A SPECIFIC NUMBER WHERE
15 DO YOU MOVE FROM MIDDLE CLASS TO RICH? IS IT 100
16 THOUSAND, IS IT 50 THOUSAND, 2 HUNDRED? HOW DOES ANYBODY
17 KNOW IF WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE?
18 A SOME OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE I'VE EVER KNOWN IN MY
19 LIFE ARE THE MOST UNHAPPY. I THINK THAT RICH IS -- SHOULD
20 BE DEFINED BY A HOME, A GOOD JOB AND EDUCATION AND THE
21 ABILITY TO HAND TO OUR CHILDREN A MORE PROSPEROUS AND
22 SAFER WORLD THAN THE ONE THAT WE INHERITED. I DON'T WANT
23 TO TAKE ANY MONEY FROM THE RICH. I WANT EVERYBODY TO GET
24 RICH. I DON'T BELIEVE IN CLASS WARFARE OR REDISTRIBUTION
25 OF THE WEALTH. BUT I CAN TELL YOU FOR EXAMPLE THERE ARE
1 SMALL BUSINESSMEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE WORKING 16 HOURS A
2 DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD CLASSIFY AS,
3 QUOTE, RICH, MY FRIENDS, WHO WANT TO RAISE THEIR TAXES AND
4 RAISE THEIR PAYROLL TAXES. LET'S HAVE -- KEEP TAXES LOW.
5 LET'S GIVE EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA A 7 THOUSAND DOLLAR TAX
6 CREDIT FOR EVERY CHILD THEY HAVE. LET'S GIVE THEM A 5
7 THOUSAND DOLLAR REFUNDABLE TAX CREDIT TO GO OUT AND GET
8 THE HEALTH INSURANCE OF THEIR CHOICE. LET'S NOT HAVE THE
9 GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN AMERICA.
10 SO -- SO I THINK IF YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT INCOME, HOW
11 ABOUT FIVE MILLION. SO -- BUT SERIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK
12 YOU CAN -- I DON'T THINK, SERIOUSLY THAT -- THE POINT IS
13 THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE HERE SERIOUSLY -- AND I'M SURE
14 THAT COMMENT WILL BE DISTORTED, BUT THE POINT IS -- THE
15 POINT IS -- THE POINT IS THAT WE WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE'S
16 TAXES LOW AND INCREASE REVENUES. AND MY FRIEND, IT WAS
17 NOT TAXES THAT MATTERED IN AMERICA IN THE LAST SEVERAL
18 YEARS. IT WAS SPENDING. SPENDING GOT COMPLETELY OUT OF
19 CONTROL. WE SPENT MONEY IN A WAY THAT MORTGAGED OUR KIDS
20 FUTURES. MY FRIENDS, WE SPENT $3 MILLION OF YOUR MONEY TO
21 STUDY THE DNA OF BEARS IN MONTANA. NOW I DON'T KNOW IF
22 THAT WAS A PATERNITY ISSUE OR A CRIMINAL ISSUE, BUT THE
23 POINT IS -- BUT THE POINT IS IT WAS 3 MILLION OF YOUR
24 MONEY. IT WAS YOUR MONEY. AND YOU KNOW, WE LAUGH ABOUT
25 IT, BUT WE CRY AND WE SHOULD CRY BECAUSE THE CONGRESS IS
1 SUPPOSED TO BE CAREFUL STEWARDS OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS. SO
2 WHAT DID THEY JUST DO IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ENERGY CRISIS
3 WHEN IN CALIFORNIA WE ARE PAYING $4 A GALLON FOR GAS, WENT
4 ON VACATION FOR FIVE WEEKS. I GUARANTEE YOU, TWO THINGS
5 THEY NEVER MISS, A PAY RAISE AND A VACATION. AND WE
6 SHOULD STOP THAT AND CALL THEM BACK AND NOT RAISE YOUR
7 TAXES. WE SHOULD NOT AND CANNOT RAISE TAXES IN TOUGH
8 ECONOMIC TIMES. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY WHAT MY
9 DEFINITION OF RICH IS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO RAISE
10 ANYBODY'S TAXES. I REALLY DON'T. IN FACT, I WANT TO GIVE
11 WORKING AMERICANS A BETTER SHOT AT HAVING A BETTER LIFE
12 AND WE ALL KNOW THE CHALLENGES, MY FRIENDS, IF I COULD BE
13 SERIOUS. AMERICANS TONIGHT IN CALIFORNIA AND ALL OVER
14 AMERICA ARE SITTING AT THE KITCHEN TABLE, RECENTLY AND
15 SUDDENLY LOST A JOB, CAN'T AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR HOME,
16 EDUCATION FOR THEIR KIDS, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE, THESE
17 ARE TOUGH PROBLEMS. THESE ARE TOUGH PROBLEMS. YOU TALK
18 TO THEM EVERY DAY.
19 Q ALL THE TIME?
20 A EVERY DAY. MY FRIENDS, WE HAVE GOT TO GIVE THEM
21 HOPE AND CONFIDENCE IN THE FUTURE. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO
22 GIVE THEM AND I CAN INSPIRE THEM. I CAN LEAD AND I KNOW
23 THAT OUR BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD OF US.
24 Q ALL RIGHT. NOW, WE GOT A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT IN
25 THIS SECTION. HERE IS A SECURITY QUESTION I DIDN'T GET TO
1 WITH SENATOR OBAMA. WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME. WHEN IS
2 OUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY -- WHEN OUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND OUR
3 RIGHT TO NATIONAL SECURITY COLLIDE, HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHAT
4 TAKES PRECEDENT?
5 A IT DOES COLLIDE AND THERE ARE ALWAYS COMPETING
6 PRIORITIES. WE MUST PRESERVE THE PRIVACY OF ALL OF OUR
7 CITIZENS AS MUCH POSSIBLE BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE
8 FUNDAMENTAL AND BASIC RIGHTS WE HAVE. AND BY THE WAY,
9 INCLUDING A SECRET BALLOT FOR UNION ORGANIZERS, A SECRET
10 BALLOT, NOT A BALLOT THAT SOMEONE COMES AROUND AND SIGNS
11 YOU UP, THAT'S A DIFFERENT SUBJECT. BUT THE POINT IS WE
12 HAVE NOW HAD TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCES OVER THE LAST 20 OR 30
13 YEARS IN COMMUNICATIONS THAT ARE REMARKABLE. IT'S A
14 REMARKABLE ABILITY THAT OUR ENEMIES HAVE TO COMMUNICATE SO
15 WE HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THAT CAPABILITY. I MEAN, THERE IS
16 TOO MANY WAYS AND -- THROUGH CYBERSPACE AND THROUGH OTHER
17 WAYS -- THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH ONE
18 ANOTHER. SO WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STEP UP OUR
19 CAPABILITIES TO MONITOR THOSE. SOMETIMES THERE ARE CALLS
20 FROM OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES, INSIDE THE UNITED STATES,
21 THERE IS ALL KINDS OF COMMUNICATIONS OF EVERY DIFFERENT
22 KIND. SO YOU NEED CONGRESS TO WORK TOGETHER YOU NEED A
23 JUDICIARY THAT WILL REVIEW THESE LAWS THAT WE PASS AND AT
24 THE SAME TIME, IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF OUR FAILURE TO SIT
25 DOWN, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, AND WORK THESE THINGS OUT
1 TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THE NATION'S SECURITY. INSTEAD
2 OF THIS CONSTANT FIGHTING WHICH, ACCORDING TO OUR DIRECTOR
3 OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, UNTIL WE FINALLY REACHED AN
4 AGREEMENT NOT LONG AGO WAS COMPROMISING OUR ABILITY TO
5 KEEP AMERICA FROM ATTACK. AND SO THERE IS A CONSTANT
6 TENSION. IT IS CHANGING WITH CHANGES IN TECHNOLOGY AND WE
7 HAVE TO STAY UP WITH IT.
8 Q WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN.
THE COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY.
THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES AND THE
CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
ONLY THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF
THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER CAN BE
THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY
BEING TAKEN.
24 Q. ALL RIGHT. WELCOME BACK TO SADDLEBACK CIVIL
25 FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY, AND WE'RE HERE WITH SENATOR
1 JOHN MCCAIN.
2 JOHN, THESE LAST QUESTIONS ARE ABOUT AMERICA'S
3 RESPONSIBILITY TO THE WORLD. WE ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT
4 THE MOST BLESSED NATION IN THE WORLD. WE ARE BLESSED
5 TO BE A BLESSING AND THE BIBLE SAYS MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH
6 SHALL BE REQUIRED. SO I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS
7 STEWARDSHIP TO EVERYBODY ELSE. AND LET'S FIRST TALK
8 ABOUT FREEDOM AND WAR AS AN AMERICAN. WHAT IS WORTH
9 DYING FOR AND WHAT IS WORTH COMMITTING AMERICAN LIVES
10 FOR?
11 A. FREEDOM. OUR NATIONAL SECURITY. OUR SECURITY
12 AS A NATION. WARS HAVE STARTED IN OBSCURE PLACES THAT
13 HAVE ENVELOPED US. WE ALSO MUST TEMPER THAT WITH THE
14 ABILITY TO EFFECTIVELY AND BENEFICIALLY CAUSE THE
15 OUTCOME THAT WE WANT. IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S TYRANNY
16 AND TRAGEDY THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND WE CAN'T RIGHT
17 EVERY WRONG BUT WE CAN DO WHAT AMERICA HAS DONE
18 THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY AND THAT IS BE A BEACON OF HOPE
19 AND LIBERTY AND FREEDOM FOR EVERYONE IN THE WORLD AS
20 RONALD REAGAN USED TO QUOTA SHINING CITY ON A HILL. SO
21 THERE ARE COULD BE CONFLICTS THAT WE CAN'T SETTLE. THE
22 MOST PRECIOUS ASSET WE HAVE IS AMERICAN BLOOD AND
23 THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY AMERICANS HAVE GONE TO ALL FOUR
24 CORNERS OF THE WORLD AND SHED THAT BLOOD IN DEFENSE OF
25 SOMEONE ELSE'S FREEDOM. NO OTHER NATION ON EARTH HAS
1 EVER DONE THAT BUT WE'VE ALSO SUCCEEDED IN OTHER WAYS.
2 WE WON THE COLD WAR AS I MENTIONED EARLIER WITHOUT
3 FIRING A SHOT BECAUSE OF OUR ETIOLOGY AND THAT
4 COMMUNISM IS WRONG AND EVIL AND WE CAN DEFEAT IT JUST
5 LIKE WE CAN DEFEAT RADICAL ISLAMIC EXTREMISM. CAN WE
6 TALK ABOUT THE LATEST IN GEORGIA?
7 Q. LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WHAT WOULD BE THE
8 CRITERIA FOR WHICH YOU WOULD COMMIT TROOPS?
9 A. AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS ARE
10 THREATENED.
11 Q. I UNDERSTAND THAT. WHAT ABOUT GENOCIDE IN
12 DARFUR OR THE MASS KILLINGS TOOK PLACE IN GEORGIA?
13 A. OUR OBLIGATION IS TO STOP GENOCIDE WHEREVER WE
14 CAN. WE ALL KNOW ABOUT RWANDA. NO ONE KNOWS THAT
15 BETTER THAN YOU AND THE SADDLEBACK CHURCH WHO HAVE BEEN
16 SO ACTIVE. BY THE WAY CINDY WAS JUST THERE WITH MIKE
17 HUCKABEE AND DR. BILL FRIST AND HAVE SEEN WHEN THE
18 WOMEN OF RWANDA ARE DOING. THE WOMAN ARE TAKING CHARGE
19 OF THE FUTURE OF RWANDA BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING NEVER
20 AGAIN AND THEY ARE DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB.
21 DARFUR, OUR MOST RESPECTED FORMER SECRETARY
22 OF STATE COLLIN POWELL CALLED GENOCIDE SOME YEARS AGO.
23 THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN WE EFFECTIVELY STOP IT AND
24 OBVIOUSLY WE'VE GOT TO DO MORE AND WE'VE GOT TO TRY TO
25 MARSHAL THE FORCES ALL OVER THE WORLD TO JOIN US.
1 I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE OUGHT TO EXPLORE
2 MORE CAREFULLY IS US SUPPLYING THE LOGISTICS AND
3 EQUIPMENT AND THE AID AND THE AFRICAN COUNTRIES STEP
4 FORWARD WITH THE PERSONNEL TO ENFORCE A GENUINE CEASE
5 FIRE. IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION AS YOU KNOW.
6 BUT WE'VE GOT TO BE COMMITTED TO NEVER SAYING NEVER
7 AGAIN.
8 Q. WHAT ABOUT YOU WERE SEE RUSSIA REASSERTING
9 ITSELF IN GEORGIA AND MAYBE NOW POLAND. WHAT'S
10 HAPPENING?
11 A. I'M VERY SADDENED HERE TO BE WITH YOU AND TALK
12 ABOUT A RUSSIA REEMERGENCE IN THE CENTURIES OLD
13 AMBITION OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE TO DOMINATE THAT PART OF
14 THE WORLD. KILLINGS, MURDER, VILLAGES ARE BEING
15 BURNED. PEOPLE ARE BEING WANTONLY EJECTED FROM THEIR
16 HOMES. LATEST FIGURE IS FROM HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION
17 IS 118,000 PEOPLE FROM THAT SMALL COUNTRY. IT WAS ONE
18 OF THE EARLIEST CHRISTIAN NATIONS. THE KING OF THEN
19 GEORGIA IN THE THIRD CENTURY CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY.
20 YOU GO TO GEORGIA AND YOU SEE THESE OLD CHURCHES THAT
21 GO BACK TO THE FOURTH AND FIFTH CENTURY. IN FACT THE
22 PRESIDENT SAAKZSHVILI IS A MAN WHO IS EDUCATED IN THE
23 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ON A SCHOLARSHIP. HE WENT
24 BACK TO GEORGIA AND WITH OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAD
25 ALSO RECEIVED AN EDUCATION THEY ACHIEVED A REVOLUTION
1 THEY HAD DEMOCRACY PROSPERITY AND A GREAT ALSO NATION
2 AND NOW THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING IN THERE IN AN ACT OF
3 AGGRESSION AND WE HAVE TO NOT ONLY BRING ABOUT CEASE
4 FIRE BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE HONORED ONE OF THE MOST
5 FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF ANY NATION AND THAT IS
6 TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY. WE MUST RESPECT THE ENTIRE
7 TERRITORY OF RUSSIA -- EXCUSE ME -- THE RUSSIANS MUST
8 RESPECT THE ENTIRE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF GEORGIA AND
9 THERE'S ONLY 4 MILLION PEOPLE IN GEORGIA MY FRIENDS.
10 I'VE BEEN THERE. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE COUNTRY THEY
11 ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. THEY ARE SUFFERING TERRIBLY NOW
12 AND THERE'S TWO OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS VERY QUICKLY.
13 ONE OF THEM DON'T THINK IT WAS AN ACCIDENT THAT THE
14 PRESIDENT OF LITHUANIA, THE PRESIDENTS, LITHUANIA
15 LATVIA, ESTONIA, POLAND AND UKRAINE FLEW TO TBILISI TO
16 SHOW THEIR SOLIDARITY WITH THE PRESIDENT OF GEORGIA
17 BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH GEORGIA.
18 THEY LIVED UNDER RUSSIA DOMINATION FOR A LONG PERIOD OF
19 TIME.
20 SECOND OF ALL, OF COURSE, IT IS ABOUT ENERGY.
21 THERE'S AN OIL PIPELINE THAT GOES ACROSS GEORGIA THAT
22 UP TO NOW HAD NOT BEEN CONTROLLED BY THE RUSSIANS AND
23 MY FRIEND ENERGY THE RUSSIANS ARE USING IS A TREMENDOUS
24 LEVER AGAINST THE EUROPEANS. SO KEEP THEM IN YOUR
25 PRAYERS. LET'S GET THE HUMANITARIAN AID AS QUICKLY AS
1 POSSIBLE TO THEM AND SEND THE MESSAGE TO THE RUSSIANS
2 THAT THIS BEHAVIOR IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN THE 21ST
3 CENTURY.
4 Q. RELATED TO THAT, OUR AMERICA'S RESPONSIBILITY
5 IN THE WORLD RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION. WHAT WOULD YOU DO
6 IN YOUR ADMINISTRATION TO END TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE
7 CHINESE AND IRAQ AND ALL THE OTHER PLACES SO-CALLED
8 ALLIES OF OURS THAT WILL ALLOW -- WILL NOT ALLOW
9 RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WHETHER IT IS CHRISTIAN OR ANY OTHER
10 FAITH?
11 A. THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS THE
12 GREATEST ASSET IS THE BULLY PULPIT. THE PRESIDENT OF
13 THE UNITED STATES AND I GO BACK AGAIN TO RONALD REAGAN
14 HE WENT TO THE BERLIN WALL AND SAID TAKE DOWN THIS
15 WALL. CALLED THEM AN EVIL EMPIRE. MANY SAID DON'T,
16 DON'T ANTAGONIZE THE RUSSIANS OR DON'T CAUSE A
17 CONFRONTATION WITH THE SOVIET UNION. HE STOOD FOR WHAT
18 HE BELIEVED AND HE SAID WHAT HE BELIEVED AND HE SAID
19 THAT TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE THEN CAPTIVE NATIONS THE
20 DAY WILL COME WHEN YOU WILL KNOW FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY
21 AND THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF MAN. OUR JUDEO CHRISTIAN
22 PRINCIPLES DICTATE THAT WE DO WHAT WE CAN TO HELP
23 PEOPLE WHO ARE PRESSED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND I WOULD
24 LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT I STILL THINK THAT EVEN IN THE
25 WORSE PLACES IN THE WORLD TODAY IN THE DARKEST CORNERS
1 LITTLE COUNTRIES LIKE BELARUS, THEY STILL HARBOR THIS
2 HOPE AND DREAM SOME DAY TO BE LIKE US AND HAVE FREEDOM
3 AND DEMOCRACY AND WE HAVE OUR FLAWS AND WE HAVE OUR
4 FAILINGS AND WE TALK ABOUT THEM ALL THE TIME AND WE
5 SHOULD, BUT WE REMAIN MY FRIENDS THE MOST UNUSUAL
6 EXPERIMENT IN HISTORY AND I'M PRIVILEGED TO SPEND EVERY
7 DAY OF MY LIFE IN IT. I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE
8 WITHOUT IT.
9 Q. JOHN, MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ARE
10 148 ORPHANS IN THE WORLD GROWING UP WITHOUT PARENTS.
11 WHAT SHOULD WE DO ABOUT THIS AND WOULD YOU BE WILLING
12 TO CONSIDER OR EVEN COMMIT TO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE
13 PRESIDENT'S EMERGENCY PLAN FOR AIDS, WHICH HE SAID AIDS
14 IS AN EMERGENCY AT PEPFAR. COULD WE DO A PEPFAR FOR
15 THE EMERGENCY PLAN FOR 148 MILLION ORPHANS? MOST OF
16 THESE, THEY DON'T NEED TO GROW UP IN ORPHANAGES, THEY
17 NEED TO BE IN FAMILIES AND MANY OF THOSE FAMILIES COULD
18 TAKE THEM IN IF THEY HAD SOME KIND OF ASSISTANCE.
19 A. WELL I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE ADOPTION A LOT
20 EASIER IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT'S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE GO
21 TO OTHER COUNTRIES TO GET -- TO BE ABLE TO ADOPT
22 CHILDREN. MY GREAT HERO AND ROLE MODEL TEDDY ROOSEVELT
23 WAS THE FIRST MODERN AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO TALK ABOUT
24 ADOPTION AND HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS AND PROMISE YOU THIS
25 IS MY LAST STORY.
1 17 YEARS AGO CINDY WAS IN DHAKA, BANGLADESH.
2 SHE WENT TO MOTHER TERESA'S ORPHANAGE. THE NUNS
3 BROUGHT HER TWO LITTLE BABIES THAT WERE NOT GOING TO
4 LIVE. CINDY CAME HOME. I MET HER AT THE AIRPLANE.
5 SHE SHOWED ME THIS 5 WEEK OLD BABY AND SAID MEET YOUR
6 NEW DAUGHTER. SHE IS 17 AND OUR LIFE IS BLESSED AND
7 THAT'S WHAT ADOPTION IS ALL ABOUT.
8 Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU'VE GOT ONE MINUTE TO ANSWER
9 THIS ONE. THAT IS WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT?
10 A. I WANT TO INSPIRE A GENERATION OF AMERICANS TO
11 SERVE A CAUSE GREATER THAN THEIR SELF INTEREST. I
12 BELIEVE THAT AMERICA'S BEST DAYS ARE AHEAD OF US, BUT I
13 ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE FACE ENORMOUS CHALLENGES BOTH
14 NATIONAL SECURITY AND DOMESTIC AS WE HAVE FOUND OUT IN
15 THE LAST FEW DAYS IN THE CASE OF GEORGIA. AND I WANT
16 TO BE -- MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS
17 IS A TIME FOR US TO COME TOGETHER, THROUGHOUT MY LIFE
18 FROM THE TIME I WAS 17 AND RAISED MY HAND AND WAS SWORN
19 IN AS A MIDSHIPMAN AT THE UNITED STATES NAVAL ACADEMY
20 I'VE ALWAYS PUT MY COUNTRY FIRST. I PUT MY COUNTRY
21 FIRST WHEN I HAD THE HONOR OF SERVING IN THE MILITARY
22 AND I HAD THE HONOR OF PUTTING MY COUNTRY FIRST AS A
23 MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND IN THE
24 UNITED STATES SENATE.
25 AMERICA WANTS HOPE. AMERICA WANTS OPTIMISM.
1 AMERICA WANTS US TO SIT DOWN TOGETHER.
2 I HAVE A RECORD OF REACHING ACROSS THE AISLE
3 AND WORKING WITH THE OTHER PARTY AND I WANT TO DO THAT
4 AND I BELIEVE AS I SAID THAT AMERICANS FEEL IT'S TIME
5 FOR US TO PUT OUR COUNTRY FIRST AND WE MAY DISAGREE ON
6 A SPECIFIC ISSUE AND I WON'T REVIEW THEM NOW, BUT I
7 WANT EVERY AMERICAN TO KNOW THAT WHEN I GO TO GEE'S
8 BEND, ALABAMA AND MEET THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN THERE
9 WHO ARE SO WONDERFUL AND LOVELY AND AN EXPERIENCE I'LL
10 NEVER FORGET AND I GO TO PLACES WHERE I KNOW THEY
11 PROBABLY WON'T VOTE FOR ME, I KNOW THAT MY JOB IS TO
12 TELL THEM THAT I'LL BE THE PRESIDENT OF EVERY AMERICAN
13 AND I'LL ALWAYS PUT MY COUNTRY FIRST.
14 Q. THANK YOU.
15 A. THANK YOU.
16 Q. ALL RIGHT. 20 SECONDS LEFT. WHAT WOULD YOU
17 SAY TO PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE ME ASKING YOU THESE QUESTIONS
18 IN A CHURCH?
19 A. I SAY TO THEM THAT I'D LIKE TO BE IN EVERY
20 VENUE IN AMERICA. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT -- THIS IS A
21 VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION. OUR NATION WAS FOUNDED ON
22 JUDEO CHRISTIAN VALUES AND PRINCIPLES. I'M HAPPY TO BE
23 HERE IN THE CHURCH. I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE IN A PLACE
24 THAT WITH YOUR PROGRAM SUCH AS PEACE, SUCH AS YOUR HELP
25 THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, SUCH AS YOUR OUTREACH TO SO MANY
1 THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS I'M HONORED TO BE HERE AND I
2 THANK YOU.
3 Q. WOULD YOU STAND AND THANK SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN.
4
5 (COMMERCIAL.)
6
7 PASTOR RICK WARREN: THANK YOU. THANK FOR
8 BEING A PART OF THE THIS SADDLEBACK CIVIL FORUM ON THE
9 PRESIDENCY.
10 I JUST WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT ONE OF THE
11 GREATEST FREEDOMS WE HAVE HERE IN AMERICA IS THE
12 FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EVEN THE FREEDOM TO PROTEST THIS
13 MEETING. THAT'S A GOOD THING, BUT WE HAVE TO LEARN HOW
14 TO HAVE CIVILITY IN OUR CIVILIZATION. HOW TO STOP
15 BEING RUDE, HOW TO STOP DEMONIZING EACH OTHER, HOW TO
16 HAVE A DISCUSSION AND A DEBATE BECAUSE WE ALL WANT
17 AMERICA TO BE A GREATER PLACE. GOD BLESS YOU.
